Desperately seeking advice

[JAP]

Hi Noody,

I am not quite sure what you know for certain?

My understanding is that you have Australian certificates for John Thomas BENNETT who states that he was born ca 1830 in Middlesex, and that his parents were John BENNETT and Rebecca HARDING?

Are they the only facts you have i.e. does everything else come into the category only of possible leads you are following up?   It is always possible that John Thomas might not have been baptized and/or there might be no surviving record of it.  And his parents might not still have been living by the time of the 1851 census.  Etc ...

Perhaps when the 1841 census comes on to a certain site you will be able to see whether any John BENNETT(s) aged ca 11 is/are with parents John BENNETT and Rebecca ...

Though even this may not help as it is known (see Valda's post) that a John Thomas BENNETT (might be yours, might not) was baptized at St George in the East, Stepney in 1830 to a John BENNETT and a Rebecca; it might be worth ordering the film (#0578791) into your local LDS FHC just in case there are any further clues in the entry?   And you say you have a copy of a church record for a John Thomas BENNETT being born in Shadwell to a John BENNETT and a Rebecca; what are the full details of this "church record"?  St George in the East, Stepney and St Paul's, Shadwell were adjacent parishes and both were in Middlesex (sometimes recorded as London).

If you search for Shadwell on
http://www.old-maps.co.uk
then, when the map comes up, click on 'enlarged view', and scroll around, you can see St George church and, not far to the east, St Paul's church.   

Incidentally the Hugh Wallis site at:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm
indicates that baptisms for St Mary's CE, Rotherhithe for the time of the birth of Rebecca of the 1851 census (ca 1811) are in the online IGI (Rotherhithe appears in part as London, and in part as Surrey in the IGI).  But, as you have found, there is no Rebecca HARDING in them.  It is possible that Rebecca HARDING (wherever she was born) might not have been baptized or she might have been baptized in a church of some other denomination, the records of which are not held by the LDS and/or have not survived.  Similarly a record of the marriage of John BENNETT and Rebecca HARDING (wherever that took place) might not have survived, or have been indexed.

The details of the "church record" would be interesting.  And Valda has asked two very pertinent questions - when did your John Thomas emigrate (if you don't have the details of ship etc, presumably you have his death certificate which will indicate how long he had lived in Australia) and what was his father's occupation (which should be on John Thomas's marriage certificate).

Good luck,

JAP   

[noody]

Valda and JAP.  Many thanks for both of your replies.  Valda I have taken down those children previously, but have nothing at this stage to link them to my John Thomas and Rebecca, but they are in the file WAITING.

Jap,
I have on the marriage certificate, the name of Rebecca Harding,  John Thomas's father's occupation,  that of Waterman.  Cannot not find him in the bindings, so he may have just been a dock labourer.
On all his children's certificates his age is consistent, as it is  on his marriage certificate.
The "church record" I have is a copy of a record which I believe is a Church Record, as it has not only my John Thomas's name on it but several others and is hand written as though in a book.

According to his death certificate he arrived in Australia in 1853.  I have a John Bennett aboard the Lizzie Webber in 1852, but am not convinced this is the man I am after.

Yes a lot of what I have is maybe, but I feel that this is the man I am after.  I really need to find the marriage of John Bennett and Rebecca Harding and feel that this will pull it all together.  But then I wonder....................  and trying to find the marriage in c1820 is the almost impossible part.

Many thanks for all your input,

Noody

[JAP]

Hi again Noody,

1851 CENSUS
If John Thomas BENNETT arrived in Australia in 1853 (what is the earliest record you have for him in Australia?), one would expect to find him in the 1851 census.  There are some possibilities for a John BENNETT born Middlesex/London ca 1830 but nothing one can be sure of.  What was his (earliest) occupation in Australia?

'LIZZIE WEBBER'
You mention the 'Lizzie Webber' in 1852.  Googling shows that this ship carried unassisted migrants - one might perhaps expect that John Thomas, if he were the son of a dock labourer, would be an assisted migrant?
A website at:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Indexes/PassengerLists/LizzieWebber.html
lists the passengers on the 'Lizzie Webber'.  It states that passenger John BENNET (they spell it with one 't') was a Blacksmith - was this the occupation of John Thomas?
Have you looked at the microfiche of the 'Lizzie Webber' voyage - it might have further information about passenger John BENNETT which could either rule him out or leave him as a possibility.
The site also says that the ship sailed from Sunderland and that, though not all passengers were from NE England, most were.

THE "CHURCH" RECORD
Are you certain that the "church record" is from St Paul's Shadwell?  What is the wording of the entry?
If I were you, I would be ordering in the film with the baptism of John Thomas BENNETT, 1830, son of John BENNETT and Rebecca, in St George in the East, Stepney (the parish adjoining Shadwell St Paul's0.  It probably won't help - but you never know.

1841 CENSUS
Have you requested a lookup in the 1841 London census on the London Lookup Requests board?

Good luck,

JAP

[Valda]

A waterman and lighterman are very specific terms so unless John Thomas Bennett was elevating his father's status on his marriage (and if he was doing that you might expect him to have elevated it a bit further than waterman) you would not confuse the term waterman with a dock labourer. Watermen apprenticeships passed down families and there is that strong element of training and skill associated with the occupation. Dock labourer is an unskilled job.  If you finished your apprenticeship as a waterman and became a member of the Guild you were also entitled to become a freemen of the City of London (dock labourers born Dartmouth Devon were not likely to have received that London apprenticeship which in the earlier part of the C19th was still a bit of a monopoly but which broke down increasingly as the C19th progressed).

The website I have already given has access to the records and indexes of the watermen and lightermen (and I personally have found information outside the bindings when I have researched watermen) and will do searches for you. You might expect the son of a waterman to have been apprenticed himself so it would be worth searching for John Thomas Bennett in the records.

http://www.parishregister.com/aboutstp.html

As JAP says there are several possibilities for John Bennetts on the 1851 census, one of whom was a blacksmith born St. Pauls (Shadwell or otherwise?) but he was a prisoner on the 1851 census.

I can see no Rebecca Harding marriages within 20 years in the London area on the IGI or Pallots marriage index. Boyds marriage index is on the Origins website but that is subscription only.

The John Thomas Bennett baptism at St George in the East should give the father John Bennett's occupation.

Regards

Valda

[noody]

To Valda, JAP and everyone else who has helped with suggestions  and  advice, a VERY BIG THANK YOU.

I will have to leave it there for the time being, as there are some medical things to attend to, but I do thank you all for giving me so much to think about, and to plan ahead for.

many thanks

Noody