Henry Knott Cleobury Mortimer

[SASHAR]

I am trying to identify a Henry Mayne Knott mentioned as father on the marriage of a William Charles Knott to a Harriet Maud Merritt in 1909 Gloucester.  I have been helped on this site in trying to identify William Charles Knott but he doesn't seem to exist.  Family story has it that WC changed his name and I am wondering if he was in fact also a Henry Mayne Knott born June Q 1875 Clifton mentioned on the 1881 Census as 5yrs of age and son of Henry Mayne Knott, his mother Eliza Knott and siblings Harriet, James, Eliza & Annie.  It is also possible that this same person married before 1909 as Henry Mayne Knott in Dec Q 1899 a Bessie Hamblin Button and had a daughter.
If anyone knows this family or can help, it would be greatly appreciated - thanks, Sashar

[mayne knott]

I am researching my family history and I wonder if any of this may be of help.  I have obtained copies of 1861 and and 1891 Census lists.  The family name is "Knott" and both census reports show John Knott and Elizabeth Knott.  In addition, the 1891 Census shows their son  William Knott.  The handwritten details are not to clear but the address may be Melbourne Place or Melbourne Terrace ?? 
John Knott was my Gt Gt Grandfather and William Knott was my Gt Grandfather.  Both father and son worked as Coopers as did later male members of the family.  I also have later cnsus lists for 1881 and 1891 for William Mayne Knott and family.
I have a family group photograph which I inherited from my grandmother (Beatrice Mary Mayne Knott)  which was taken when they all were living in Stourport - on - Severn (looking at the style of clothing this may have been around late 1890's).  I can identify some family members but cannot identify the senior members of the family although I believe they are John and William Knott and their respective wives.

I realise that the time frame that your researching is not the same but the details may be of interest.  It may well be that your research into earlier details on the mayne knott families may well be of interest to me - they well be early ancestors of mine!

[SASHAR]

I'm not sure if I can help at all as I'm still rather confused with the Knott family.

What years were your G G Grandfather John and G Grandfather William born?

Sashar 

[mayne knott]

Thank you for the reply Sashar.  Yes, the Knott family is rather confusing!  Well here goes...I've listed the lot!
1861 Census (carried out on 7th April) Parish of Claine: Ecclesiastical Parish of Claines -
The Knott family are listed as:
John Knott (Head) aged 40yrs - Cooper . Birthplace Cleobury Mortimer, Salop (b 1821).
Elizabeth Knott (Wife) aged 39yrs. Birthplace Diddlebury, Salop (b 1822).
 William  Knott (Son) aged 7yrs. Birthplace Stourport, Worcester (b 1854)
 All listed as living at either  Melbourne Place or Melbourne Terrace?
1891 Census (carried out on 3rd April) County Worcester.  Civil Parish South Claines.
Only lists John Knott and Elizabeth Knott aged 70yrs and 69yrs respectiveley - no mention of William Knott.  Listed as living at 2 Melbourne Street .
1881 Census (carried out 3rd April) Borough of Birmingham.  Now its the Mayne Knott family listed as:
William John Mayne Knott (Head) aged 26yrs - Cooper.  Birthplace Worcester Stourport (b 1855).
Kate Mayne Knott (Wife) aged 24yrs. Birthplace Worcester (b 1857)
Evelyn Mayne Knott (Daughter) aged 3yrs Birthplace  Worcester Stourport (b 1878)
Beatrice Mary Mayne Knott (Daughter) aged 1yr Birthplace Warwick Birmingham (b 1879)
Mary A Eskins?? (Boarder) aged 18yrs - Sauce Pickle Maker. Birthplace Worcester (b 1863)
1901 Census (carried out 31st March) County of Worcester parish Lower Mitton.
William John Mayne Knott (Head) aged 46yrs - Cooper. Kate Mayne Knott (Wife) aged 44yrs.
Evelyn Mayne Knott (Daughter) aged 23yrs.  Beatrice Mary Mayne Knott (Daughter) aged 21yrs.
Leonard Mayne Knott (Son) aged 16yrs.  Kate Mayne Knott (Daughter) aged 14yrs.
Ethel Mayne Knott (Daughter) aged 12yrs. Harold Mayne Knott (Son) aged 10yrs.
Reginald Mayne Knott (Son) aged 9yrs.
 Don't know what happend on the 1871 and the 1881 Censuses for other variations of the Knott surname.  The above was forwarded to me following an internet search (more work for me to do).  I also received the following information by email from the same source:
John William Mayne Knott married Kate Smith at Kidderminster in 1876.
Baptism of John Edwin Mayne Knott, son of Richard & Harriett, at Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, born 14 Mar 1821, baptised 22 Apr 1821.
The more I search the family background the more confusing it becomes!  I suspect that the  census details I have may be for two different families of Knotts?  One being  "Mayne Knott" and the other is just "Knott".  I've been related to the "Mayne Knotts" all my life and always found it confusing.  As the saying goes....a knotty problem!
Hope all this is of some use.

[SASHAR]

I believe my Henry Mayne KNOTT b. c1817 was the son of Richard and Harriet.
There is a christening at Cleobury Mortimer for Henry, 2.11.1817 on family search which I've followed up with this:-
1838 - Marriage at Wolverhampton of Henry Mayne KNOTT and Mary Ann ROGERS.
1841 Census - HO107/1195/4/16/25 Address: Bromsgrove Worcestershire
Henry KNOTT 20 - cooper - N
Mary 25 N
Henry 3 N -this is who I think later became George Henry Williams b.c1839
John 3 mo Y
Labright COX 50 - nail mr -Y
Emma COX 12 Y
1851 Census
HO107/1985 208 4
Stottesden, Shropshire Village
Henry Knott, head, 33, Cooper, b. Cleobury Mortimer
Mary Ann, wife, 30, b. Radnor Llandrinden?
Henry, son, 12, at home errand boy, b. Salop Ludlow
John, son, 9, scholar, b. Worcester Bromsgrove (I think)
Emma, dau, 6, scholar, b. Cleobury Mortimer
1855 - Marriage of Henry Mayne KNOTT to Martha DODD

1861 Bridgnorth census.

RG9/1849 1+ Enum. District 1. Folio 12B. Sch 103.
33 High Street, Bridgnorth.

Henry M KNOTT, Head, Mar, 40, Cooper, Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire.
Martha KNOTT, Wife, Mar, 30, Bewdley, Worcs.
In the same property as a REEDE or REESE family.

In the Bridgnorth Municipal cemetery is the burial of Martha KNOTT, age 44, wife of Henry. Buried 16 Sept 1866. Grave No. 1306 Unconsecrated ground.
SO WHERE WERE ALL THE CHILDREN IN 1861? Henry Jnr would be 22, John 19 and Emma 16.

1866 - marriage of Henry Mayne KNOTT to Ann GOUGH born Dawley (3 months after Martha's death).

I think that was all I could find for Henry and Ann KNOTT nee Gough. Couldn't find them in 1871 Census onwards.

I think they have to be connected in some way, the occupations as Coopers and the birthplaces, the disappearances off the Census - all a bit sus      My lot seem to have taken on the name WILLIAMS for a while.

If you make another post I can contact you offlist.

Sashar

[Mr Gwynne Chadwick]

Hi Sashar,

Since providing you with the information in 2006 about Henry M KNOTT in Bridgnorth;

1861 Bridgnorth census.
33 High Street, Bridgnorth.

Henry M KNOTT, Head, Mar, 40, Cooper, Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire.
Martha KNOTT, Wife, Mar, 30, Bewdley, Worcs.

In the Bridgnorth Municipal cemetery is the burial of Martha KNOTT, age 44, wife of Henry. Buried 16 Sept 1866. Grave No. 1306 Unconsecrated ground.

additional information has become available.
 
From the local newspaper 'The Bridgnorth Journal'
Issue 14 June 1862;
There was a lengthy court case report involving theft from Henry Mayne KNOTT - boot & shoe maker  in High Street. Mentions Martha KNOTT, wife of Henry.

Issue 22 April 1865;
Public Notice - The Partnership between James RODEN and Henry KNOTT, trading as Roden & Knott - Brass & Iron founders of Underhill Street, has been dissolved.

Issue 4 May 1867;
Henry M KNOTT was placing weekly advertisements for his Boot & Shoe establishment in The New buildings.

So were there two Henry KNOTT's, with a wife Martha, in Bridgnorth?

Gwynne

http://rafbridgnorth.org.uk

[SASHAR]

Thanks Gwynne,

You have a good memory 

I don't think I have come across 2 Henry M's with wife as Martha but each day seems to turn up something new.
I'm beginning to think they were leading double lives.

There are quite a few Henry Mayne KNOTT's and Henry M KNOTT's around the place but as you said, after 6 yrs I've still not untangled them.

At least you've revealed something different to occupy their time besides being Coopers 
There seem to be quite a few KNOTT unravellers out there and we are all in a muddle.

Appreciate your information and it may just slot in somewhere,

Kind Regards,
Sashar

[mayne knott]

I recently contacted Cleobury Mortimer History Society with a request for information relating to the Knott family.  The following reply may be of interest:

CM parish records
Jane baptised 29 09 1815 Parents John & Mary(?) Knott. John = cooper
Richard Mayne, William Mayne and Henry Mayne baptised (triplets!) baptised 02 11 1817. Parents Richard & Harriet Ann Knott. Richard = cooper
Elizabeth Main baptised 21 11 1819. Parents Richard & Harriet Knott. Richard = cooper
John Edwin Mayne baptised 22 04 1821, born 30 March. Parents Richard & Harriett Knott.  Richard = cooper.
Anne baptised 25 05 1823, born 23 March. Parents Richard & Harriet Knott. Richard = cooper.
No further records....
Census
1841 census Richard, 49,  Harriet,60, John, 20, Ann 18 were living at the Viols CM. Richard = cooper.
1851 census John,30 Elizabeth,29, Richard,59 living in the High St CM. Richard still a cooper.
1861 census Richard , lodger, widower age 69. Still a cooper. Living in Church Street. Born in Lindridge, Worcs.
Free BMD
02 May 1850 marriage between John Knott & Elizabeth Morris in CM. Both fathers called Richard. 

[SASHAR]

Great, thanks for sharing that information - triplets    that was a surprise!

Many thanks,
Sashar