1841 census help for St. Andrew Wardrobe area

[lighthouse]

I have a marriage of a Charles Crowder to Bridget Burns in 1843 at St. Andrew Wardrobe in the paris of St. Ann Blackfriars, London.  Bridget Burns was of full age.  Her father is listed as James Burns a Labourer.  The address listed at the time of the marriage was Old Bailey.  It is possible that James Burns' occupation could also be a Bricklayer.  I know this information is a long shot but I am still hoping that somebody might be able to help find this Burns family in 1841.  Thank you, James and Karen from Canada.

[Bryant]

Hello lighthouse

Did you ever find your Burns family? have you learnt anything else of the family? was their any witnesses at the marriage in 1843?

St Andrew Wardrobe is still there today........just across the road from the Mermaid Theatre in Queen Victoria Street and close to Blackfriars Station..........the Old Bailey (the court and the street) being 5-10 minutes walk away

Bridget Crowder died within the Holborn R.D in the Dec qtr of 1858
Charles Crowder died either Dec qtr of 1853 or June qtr of 1855..........both within the Holborn R.D (father & son?)


Bryant

[lighthouse]

Thanks for your response, Bryant.  The witnesses to the marriage were Samuel Hudson and M A Stevens.  Not very helpful.  Charles was living at Weavers Arms, Shoreditch with his first wife Sarah in 1841.  I cannot find Bridget Burns in the 1841 census.  She was a spinster when she got married in 1843.  Her father is listed as James Burns a labourer.  However her children with Charles Crowder wind up living with Thomas Burns as nieces and nephew.  Yet on Thomas Burns' marriage his father is listed as Hugh Burns a bricklayer, who doesn't appear to be alive in 1841.  Perhaps the father's name was James Hugh or Hugh James Burns?

[Bryant]

Hello lighthouse

Their are several Bridget Burns around but not with father or in the right place! have you got her in 1851, if so can you display the census details of all in the household, names, ages, occupations where born etc (looking for any connection to the past ie 1841)....I see that Bridget dies within the Holborn R.D in the Dec qtr of 1858 (the death cert will have the age of Bridget and where they was living at time of death, as well as who registered the death, you never know it might be one of her parents?)

Charles was married to Sarah wasn't he, or that couldn't possibly be his sister he is living with in 1841? ........ the 1843 marriage cert did say he was a widower?
 
Charles Spencer Crowder born Shoreditch R.D...Mar qtr 1841 (probably born Dec 1840)..........you haven't got that birth cert have you?

I don't see a death for Sarah Crowder 1841-1843!..........but I do see a death for Sarah Spencer Mar qtr 1842...Shoreditch R.D.....is it her, good question? then again their was 4 of them living in Shoreditch in the 1841 and one of them was 90 years young..............

And with a 6 month old child (Charles, the first?) and their given age (20-24) I would have expected them to have been married recently ie Sept qtr 1837 to Dec qtr 1840............I don't see the marriage!

1841
WEAVERS ARMS, NEW STREET, ST LEONARDS, SHOREDITCH, MIDDX
CHARLES CROWDER   20   PUBLICAN    Y
SARAH          "             20                       Y
CHARLES      "             6 MONTHS           Y
MARIA HUNT                25   F.S               Y
WILLIAM BAPTER         15   M.S              N
THOMAS BROWN         25 SOLICITOR     N
-------------

This being the children in 1861

1861
3 WILSON STREET, ST LUKES, FINSBURY, MIDDX
THOMAS BURNS               HEAD   46   BUILDER   FINSBURY
MARY         "                     WIFE   46                        "
AMELIA      "                    DAUR   20                        "
HENRY       "                    SON     17      "                 "
WILLIAM   "                     SON     15      "                 "
JAMES        "                    SON     13      "                 "
ROBERT     "                     SON      9                          "
MARY         "                     DAUR    7                          "
ELIZABETH CROWDER     NIECE  16                    HOLBORN
JANE               "               NIECE   11                         "
HENRY            "             NEPHEW  9                          "
----------------
*Wilson Street (still there today) is just a few minutes from Shoreditch.

1841
WILSON STREET, ST LUKE (he must have liked Wilson Street!)
THOMAS BURNS  26  BUILDER   YES
MARY          "       26                   YES
MARGARET  "       6                     YES
THOMAS     "        2                     YES
AMILY         "        4 MONTHS       YES
ANN            "       13                    YES
-----------
* Ann (Mary Ann?) is 13 and is obviously not their child but a family member.......daughter of whom?........Ann quite possibly is there just to look after baby Amelia/Amily and hopefully back with her parents in 1851....then again she more than likely got married before 1851?

Bryant

[Bryant]

I assume this is the marriage of those that looked after the children in 1861

THOMAS BURNS to MARY DWYER....19TH JAN 1834....ST LEONARDS, SHOREDITCH

and these are the other BURNS that got married under that LDS batch number........
EDWARD BURNS.....1819
JAMES BURNS ........1820
HANNAH BURNS.....1821
MARY BURNS..........1828
THOMAS BURNS......1830
CATHERINE BURNS..1831
MARGARET BURNS....1833

one/some of which may be siblings of Thomas who married in 1834?

----------------------
The name of Burn/s is plentiful......here is one that is not far away

1841
NOTTINGHAM COURT, ST GILES, FINSBURY, MIDDX
JOHN MOTT   30   LAB    Y
HANNAH "      25            Y
ANN        "      70  IND    Y
MARY      "       2             Y            MARY ANN MOTT born Dec qtr 1838....Bloomsbury R.D
WILLIAM "       8 MONTHS Y         WILLIAM DAVID MOTT born Dec qtr 1840...Bloomsbury R.D
\
JAMES BURN   40 LAB      Y
MARY     "        40            Y
\
WILLIAM SISLEY 8          Y
\\
------------ 
*William George Sisley may well have died in the St Lukes R.D in 1858 and quite possibly his mother died pre 1841 as their is a cab proprieter with that name aged 30 living in the area    
*1841 rule applies ie 25-29=25, 30-34=30, 40-44=40 etc
*Bloomsbury is another name for St Giles......   

Bridget's.......if she was living in Middx in 1841? (their isn't any in Surrey) and she was of adult age (over 21) when she married in 1843 .........and providing Bridget is not one of the many that are missing in 1841 that lived in the Old Street area (borders Shoreditch, Clerkenwell and the City of London) then you are down to ....

1841
21 ARBOUR SQUARE, M.E.O.T, STEPNEY, MIDDX
SARAH ANN PARFITT  25                                     Y
WILLIAM          "        3                                       Y
BRIDGET BURNS        25                                     IRELAND
ELIJAH KENT              25 POLICE CONSTABLE     N
HENRY WEBBER         25       "          "                 N
-------------

1841
CLARKS BUILDINGS, ST GILES, FINSBURY, MIDDX
ELLEN SWEENY   70   IND                          I (IRELAND)
BRIDGET BURNS   25                                  I
JONAS        "         5                                   I
MARY          "         4                                   I
\
JOHN BARNS/BURNS  35  FISHMONGER     Y
ANN             "             35                           Y
ELIZA           "             10                           Y
JOHN            "              6                            Y
WILLIAM       "              7 MONTHS             Y
----------------

1841
CLARENDON SQUARE, MARYLEBONE, ST PANCRAS, MIDDX
BRIDGET M BYRNE   32     IND                 N (NOT BORN MIDDX)
ELIZA            "         28     IND                 Y (BORN MIDDX)
LUCY             "         26     IND                 Y
-------------  

their are two other that appear to be married?

Two of the above may have married.........
East London R.D.......1847
West London R.D.......1854


I think you need that death cert to try to establish/have  some idea of her age.............

Bryant

[lighthouse]

Wow thank you for all of your help, Bryan.  I just viewed your posts today.  Thomas Burns actually married Mary Mitchell after their first child was born.  You have been most helpful with all of your information, Lighthouse.