MOTT/MOTTE/MOTTS, All

[lyla]

Oh no what a shame - I wonder what happened to page 2? What a nuisance!

I will get back to you as soon as I have had a chance to digest all this information. Have a great weekend

Lyla

[lyla]

Hi Fred

This is a good exercise for me as at long last I am prompted to sort out my jumble of notes on the Mott family!

William 1789.
I'm pretty certain there was only one William and that the 1841 census was
wrong - I have found this happened a lot.
The 1851 census for Lidgate is unfortunately destroyed but in 1861 Lidgate
he is aged 70 (born Kirtling), Mary is 60 and daughter Elizabeth is 20.
William died Lidgate 1868 aged 79 registered by Charlotte Mott (presumably
Abrahams wife).

James 1835.
I havent got access to Ancestry anymore and I only have a few notes and
guesses as he is not a direct ancestor. In 1881 I think he is transcribed as Moss so he may also have been mistranscribed in the other censuses. My notes are as follows:
1861 Plumstead Kent age 24 Beer Filler born Lydgate with wife Ann 23 born
Crayford.
1871 Battersea aged 34 Cab proprietor born Lydgate with wife Ann 38 born
Crayford and mother-in-law Sarah Steadman age 77 born Erith
1881 Lambeth aged 44 cab driver Lydgate with wife Ann 43 born Crayford
1891 not found
1901 Oak Grove, Hendon Ann A Mott 63 widow born Crayford
I never found a marriage but since his mother-in-law was present in 1871 it
seems a good guess

George ca 1853.
I couldn't find George after 1871 either.

Abraham ca 1826.
I think the Abraham in Culford in 1871 is definately the right Abraham.  He is listed as a shepherd. In Lidgate his wife Charlotte is listed as a shepherds wife. My theory is that when they asked his age he said 28 meaning he was born in 1828! I have a copy of the 1858 Lidgate baptism for Samuel son of Abraham and Charlotte. On the same day they baptised a daughter Amelia Harriet aged 2. I guess she must have been known by her middle name.

Lyla

[mottman]

Hi Lyla,
Well here goes for page two - ley's hope it gets thru this time!
James ca 1769/1764/1749.
In your first message on Monday 6th you stated that James Mott 1764 wed Ann Coote in Kirtling in 1788. My database showed they wed 18 November 1770 -  small query on her surname. At the time ofmaking the entry I did wonder at the long gap before any children, and your 1788 makes more sense. Again I got the marriage info from another Mott researcher.
The extra children I gave you were baptised in Kirtling - names and dates are:-
David 12.5.1793; James 22.3.1795; John 22.1.1797; James 12.6.1803.
Based on the above I can discount 1749 as his birthyear. Following the date/age of James in 1839 aged 70 gave me 1769, which as you say fits better with the 1764 baptism, so we can agree on that. However I am rather surprised that I do not have on record the marriage of William 1738 to Catherine Sargent.
William 1738.
I have on file that William baptised 23 September 1738 Bottisham, son of Thomas & Sarah (NICHOLL), who you guessed might be the same person wed to Catherine Sargent.
I had followed my normal procedure for assuming birthyears, which is to deduct 21 years (age at marriage) from the year of marriage, which in this case gives me 1716 as assumed birthyear, but with a query on the possibility of the Thomas in 1706. This, if correct, takes your tree back to William 1672.
Samuel 1791.
Son of James 1764 & Ann (COOTE/COATS). Baptised 16 January 1791. Wed Elizabeth Pain 11 November 1815. Had issue:- (all Lidgate)
George born 31.5.1816. Baptised 05.6.1816. Buried 09.6.1816.
Harriot (sic) Baptised 16.8.1818. 1841 census "Agted 21 years. Single."
Rhoda Baptised 10.6.1821. 1841 census "Aged 20 years. Single."
Charlotte Baptised 06.6.1824. Buried 01.11.1853. 1841 census "Aged 15"
Thomas Baptised 28.9.1827. Buried 07.9.1828.
Maria ca 1829. No baptism found.Buried 21.7.1844 "Aged 15 years."
Ellen Baptised 15.4.1832. Wed John Moss 07.6.1854 (3b.790 Newmarket)
George ca 1838. No baptism found. Wed Lucy Brown 1860 Sept qtr
Had issue :-
Stephen 1861. Baptised 07.7.1861. 1881 census "Aged 19 years. Coal miner." Address - 28 Ashwood Road, Rawmarsh, Yorkshire.
1) Stephen wed (unknown) 1884 March qtr 9c.695 Rotheram & had issue:-
     John 1887 Not in GRO - 1901 census "Aged 14 yrs. Coal miner driver."
     George 1890 June qtr 9c.143 Hemsworth. 1901 census "Aged 11 years."
     Annie 1892 Not in GRO - 1901 census "Aged 9 yrs. Born Hemsworth."
     Alice 1894 June qtr 9c.161 Hemsworth 1901 census "Aged 6 yrs."
     Addrerss for family - Town Street, Hemsworth.
     1911 census Stephen "Aged 49 years. Coal miner. Widower." Address - 10 West Street, Hemsworth.
2) Elizabeth 1863. Baptised 07.7.1863. Died 1865 Sept qtr 3b.345 Newmarket
3) Elizabeth 1866. Baptised 05.8.1866.
4) Charlotte Ann 1868. No baptism found. 1881 census "Aged 12 years. Domestic servant."
5) Emma 1872 June qtr 3b.503 Chesterton. 1881 census "Aged 9 yrs."
6) Thomas 1875 Dec qtr 9c.585 Sheffield. 1881 census "Aged 5 yrs."
7) Lucy Ann 1880 March qtr 9c.582 Sheffield. Died 1881 June qtr June qtr 9c.358.
George 1838 died 1883 June qtr 9c.88 Hemsworth "Aged 44 yrs."

Well I think that is all so far. I think the reason for the 2nd page not going was that I had exceeded the limit of 5500 digits !! Hope that it reaches you this time.
Enjoy!
Fred

[mottman]

Hallo again Lyla.
I've done a bit more digging and found out a little more info for you.
Stephen 1861, s/o George 1838 & Lucy. He married Sarah Elizabeth LEES in 1884.
His first born John was in fact John Thomas 1887. The transcriber had put his middle initial as 'Jw', but when I looked at it carefully I could see that it was actually 'Thos'.
Strangely enough, in the 1891 census Stephen has put his place of birth as Hanley, Staffordshire, and not Bottisham. I know it is the same person, so what he was thinking of I just can't fathom !!
Fred

[mottman]

No stopping me now, Lyla!!
That John Thomas 1887 - is actually 1886 Sept qtr 9c.652 Rotheram. 1891 census "Aged 5 years." Address - High Field, Hemsworth.
Fred

[lyla]

Well done Fred - you seem to be on a roll. I'm glad we are in agreement about the Motts we have discussed. It's good to know we are on the right track.

I think it's possible that Thomas who married Sarah Nicholl could be the one born 1706. I have pencilled it in as maybe but will leave it there for now. I wondered if perhaps it was a second marriage which would explain him being older. I see on the IGI there is a Thomas Mott marrying Frances Aves in Dullingham 1729 which would fit better with Thomas born 1706. Do you know anything about him?

My next step is to try and persuade mum that she needs to use her free bus pass and take a trip to the records office. At the moment a lot of what we have is just scribbled notes taken from the parish records but now I'd like to get hold of the actual photocopies to make certain.

I will be in touch if we find anything

Lyla

[mottman]

ks for the reply Lyla.
Have a few more bits for you from the census -

Stephen 1861
1871 census "Aged 10 years." Address - Frog End, Great Wilbraham.
1901 census "Aged 40 years." Address - Town Street, Hemsworth.

Elizabeth 1866
1871 census "Aged 4 years." Address - Frog End (as above).
1881 census "Aged 14 years." Address - 28 Ashwood Road, Rawmarsh.

Charlotte Ann  1868
1871 census "Aged 2 years." Address - Frog End (as above)

Lucy Ann 1880
1881 census "Aged 1 year." Address - 28 Ashwood Road, Rawmarsh

I have an addition for you for the family of Stephen &Sarah Elizabeth
Lucy Ann 1884 September qtr 9c.152 Hemsworth
1891 census "Aged 7 years." Address - High Field, Hemsworth
1901 census "Aged 16 years. Housemaid (Domestic).
Address - 205 Brookhill, Nether Hallam, Sheffield.

That's it for now. Good luck with getting mum on the buses!!
G'night,
Fred

[mottman]

Hi Lyla.
How are you getting on with sorting out the info? Hope you are finding the time - I know it can take a long time, particularly if there are conflicting dates, etc.
To add to the store of info so far sent, I have a little more (did I hear a groan then?). Lucy Mott, nee Brown, reamarried to a GEORGE FOX after hubby George 1838 passed away in 1883. The marriage details are -  1884 December qtr 9c.229 Hemsworth.
In the 1891 census she is "Aged 55 years." address - High Field, Hemsworth. Her son Thomas Mott (1875) is with her "Aged 15 years. Pony driver in pit." Her daughter Emma (1872) is also there "Aged 20 years. Married." Her husband was Robert Humphrey/Humpherys (Humphrey in the marriage register, Humpherys in the census). Emma & Robert married in 1890 December qtr 9c.250 Hemsworth.
Her son Thomas (1875) married an Emma 1897 September qtr 9c.193 Hemsworth. He was father to Albert (1898) and Ernest (1901). In the 1901 census Thomas was "Aged 25 years. Coal hewer." Address - West Street, Hemsworth. His wife was "Aged 28 years."
I'm thinking that the cemetery in Hemsworth must be full of information about these Mott's, likewise Lidgate. Don't know where you live but one of them might be worth a visit? I'm not all that far from Lidgate area so maybe one day when I'm trying to think of something to do I might wander down that way !!
Take care,
Fred

[lyla]

Hi Fred

To be honest there's not much more I can do without delving into the parish registers. I'm hoping mum will fancy a day-trip sometime soon! I'm only really interested in following my direct ancestors (Abraham and Charlotte Mott) although its always good to keep note of the other twigs so thanks for the information.

Do you know anything about the Thomas Mott who married Frances Aves in Dullingham in 1729? I'm thinking he might be the Thomas born 1706 rather than the one who married Sarah Nicholl in 1737? There is also a marriage in Gt Wilbraham 1696 of a Thomas Mott to Sarah Benstead that can't be ruled out.

I will do some more digging and let you know if and when I find something else.

Lyla