Author Topic: Help Finding Walter Byron  (Read 9749 times)

Offline heywood

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Re: Help Finding Walter Byron
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 22 February 06 16:16 GMT (UK) »
Yes I noticed the 'visitor' bit too and wondered.
If you look at the 1851 census for Adam and Mary Hickman- there is a daughter Martha but no candidate for 'Patti' but Francis' birth certificate says Patti Hickman.
There are some Patience Hickman and Martha Hickman marriages but none that jump out at you.
Yes - there is a scribbled out word - does look like 'Late' wondered if it could be 'Step' - the L and S on the page are similar but am inclined to go with  'late'.I thought it might have been the beginning of 'daughter' and crossed out.
I would now go for Walter's certificate and throw Blanche's in as well. Then we (or should I say you Andrea) have something concrete to go on. Am I right that we are not sure really who Martha Adams - presumably Mary Ann has died.
It's a tough one this!
Heywood
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Offline heywood

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Re: Help Finding Walter Byron
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 22 February 06 16:24 GMT (UK) »
Hysteria is setting in now. Andrea you have said that Francis is around in 1901 but I couldn't find him.
I have just noticed that son Thomas is also a french polisher like Francis - his age is too young though to be transformed into Francis but there is yet another similarity.
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Offline Andy001

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Re: Help Finding Walter Byron
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 22 February 06 17:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Heywood+UKgirl ! :)
I've just remembered why Francis can't be found in 1901-if you are using ancestry he is transcribed as Myron,the enumerator had slanted B's!!  I found him via 1901census online,then went to look on ancestry and couldn't find him!!! RG13/3733  f 163 Atkinson Place.Thomas Adams is on Folio165

I did wonder if Francis was Thomas's sisters son,I searched for an Adams and Byron marriage pre 1870 and found nothing.
Since I got FC's birth cert I have thought maybe Patti/Martha were different people -aunts cousins,but whoever she is she was a Hickman and I have downloaded all the quarters for Hickmans from 1865-1873 so far and haven't found a match to a Byron-I'm still  checking Bryans and other spellings.

Yesterday I found Thomas's family in 1861 and 1851.
In 1851 before Thomas was born ,Mary Jemima(Griffiths)+Thomas Allchurch Adams lived in St Andrew,Dudley Wood HO107/2033

In 1861 RG9/2062 Thomas was 10 on there and his sister,Blanche Marina/Marinda.
She married John Darby in 1877 at Dudley register office.
Theres a few Mary Adams who died in Dudley between 1871 and 1881.

There might have been another Adams sister,but she wouldn't have been old enough to be FC's mum.

I did try to use an ultra violet light to see what the scribble was next to son on 1881-it just looked like step!
West Midlands;Manchester;Halifax;Wadsworth;<br />Denholme;Aberdeen;Leeds;Oxford;Ludgershall;Bletchingdon<br /><br />Watson,Pollitt,Briggs,Purcell,Byron,Clancy,McNulty,Hartley,Spencer,Whyte,Worth,Mills,Cripps,Howson,Wright

Offline Andy001

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Re: Help Finding Walter Byron
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 22 February 06 17:49 GMT (UK) »
Oh,Thomas the French Polisher WAS real -he married Hannah Pendlebury in May 1904 and they lived at Falkland Ave.

All the Thomas's had ALLCHURCH as a middle name,possibly the middle Thomas's sister Blanche did too.

Here's a wierd bit of info-Thomas Allchurch Adams,who married Mary Jemima was 22 on the 1851 census,so I looked on the IGI and there he was,easy to find with a name like that-christened in August 1828 in Dudley-nowt wierd about that-except he also died in April 1829!!!!! ???
West Midlands;Manchester;Halifax;Wadsworth;<br />Denholme;Aberdeen;Leeds;Oxford;Ludgershall;Bletchingdon<br /><br />Watson,Pollitt,Briggs,Purcell,Byron,Clancy,McNulty,Hartley,Spencer,Whyte,Worth,Mills,Cripps,Howson,Wright


Offline heywood

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Re: Help Finding Walter Byron
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 22 February 06 21:38 GMT (UK) »
His dad was called that too- if there was no age - it could have been grandad or sometimes if one baby died they called a subsequent one the same name. Don't forget to keep us posted on developments.
What ever happened to Francis by the way?
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Offline PrueM

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Re: Help Finding Walter Byron
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 22 February 06 21:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi everyone,
UKgirl asked if I would post the offending bit of the 1881 census with Francis C BYROM [sic] on it, with an indecipherable relationship to the head of household.  I've altered the levels a bit to see if that made it easier to read, but it doesn't really - also made it negative in case that helped.  I copied some family relationships from further down the same page, and overlaid the word "Son" over Francis's entry - there is definitely a "Son" in the relationship column, but whether it's been crossed out, written over, blotted with ink or what, I don't know.  I can't make out the rest, but I wonder whether to the left of "Son" is written something starting with "D" - it could be an "L" but the top of the initial stroke seems to swing the opposite way to the other "L"s on the page.  The only thing that puts me off thinking it's "Daur" is that the age has been left in the "Male" column.
I don't mind saying that I'm stumped  ??? ??? ???  but I hope these images might help others.
Cheers  :)
Prue

Offline PrueM

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Re: Help Finding Walter Byron
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 22 February 06 21:56 GMT (UK) »
...and here are the clearly written family relationships from further down the page

Offline UKgirl

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Re: Help Finding Walter Byron
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 23 February 06 05:33 GMT (UK) »
Thank you PrueM for having a go.

As you say, it's not yet crystal clear.

But with logic, we can rule out some things:

1). IF the enumerator had written daughter and then changed it to son, daughter would be written neatly within the column, and son would have been added to the left. BUT what we are looking at is the opposite scenario. So, it's the left bit which has been added.

Next point: the candidates for the capital letter would seem to be "L", "S" and "D".

The case for "L":

2). IF it's "Lte", with the "te" tiny, in a high position, and underlined, and IF the enumerator correctly filled it in, then the relationship should relate to Thomas H. Adams.
Possibilities: late wife's son/late sister's son/ even late mother's son ??? (she remarried)
(although with the exception of "wife", the word "late" is redundant in all these cases (eg. late sister's son>nephew/late mother's son>brother).
Which only really leaves us with "late wife's son" (as opposed to "his" son, & hence not named Adams)
Not possibilities: late brother's son/ late father's son.

3). IF it's some attempt at "Lodger's" son, then that is hardly likely since both lodgers are male and both lodgers are unmarried.

The case for "S":

4). IF it's "Step", I don't think it is possible to shorten that word to an abbreviation. On the other hand, it could be written with a large "S" and then tiny "tep" just to take up less space. There would definitely seem to be a "te", so this explanation is definitely still in the running. However, my query is this "If all the letters are actually present, (as in S tep), would the tiny letters still be underlined? Or is underlining only used when some letters are missing? (eg. tiny "th" written after "Eliz"- I think in this case the "th" should be underlined). Are there any grammar specialists out there??"

And then we should note that the meaning of "Stepson" has 2 possiblities:
a). The son of a former wife of Thomas Adams
b). The son of the present wife of Thomas Adams

The case for "D":

5). IF it's a "D" and tiny "te"................well it COULD NOT be an abbreviation of "Daughter's son. That's for sure.

any more suggestions?

        ...........................................................................................................................................................

And then if we consider why it was corrected in the first place, well we all know that men are not too fussy about such things. They've got "more important" things on their minds :P

So that would suggest that the objection to what was written came from Mrs Adams. I guess she did not wish to be viewed as the mother of a 12-year-old "big boy", while she was delighting in her pretty daughter, Blanche.
I bet you anything that baby Blanche was her first child!! ;D

The proud mother of her own child, but not of another mother's child.

I place my bet on either "Late wife's son" or "Stepson", with the same meaning in both cases, "the son of Adam's previous wife" and no connection with Martha.

Well, that's my theory.
The birth certificate of Blanche should shed much light on matters (or am I being overly optimisic?????????????)

Of course, this theory requires Thomas to have 3 wives 1871>1881, 1st, Mary Ann, then Pattie, the mother of Francis, who must have died, and then Martha ???

Lucky fellow ;D

Who is he with in 1891?? Or has he died of exhaustion by then? (Which by the way, I too may be doing shortly >:( )

Ukgirl

PS. What was that comment Heywood made, about hysteria setting in??
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Offline UKgirl

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Re: Help Finding Walter Byron
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 23 February 06 06:05 GMT (UK) »
Andrea, why don't you list up every married couple as they actually appear in each of the censuses, not as you wish they appeared, with the apropriate timeline for their marriage according to children's ages (starting with the grandparents' marriages, as this throws up other possible maiden names):

Then without the details of the story, challenge people to find those marriages as they are described in the Censuses.

Something may come up.

They can't all be missing ???

Ukgirl
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk