Author Topic: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington  (Read 45149 times)

Offline B.E.

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Re: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington
« Reply #72 on: Wednesday 26 April 06 22:23 BST (UK) »
Nell,
I'm happy that the WJW Broomfield and Priscilla Bright who married in 1910 are the couple I'm after. It is therefore seems impossible that your borough water engineer is the same bloke. My man is aged 20 at Dunsford/Sandy Hill/Boldre on the 1901 census.

Despite what you say, WJW Broomfield must have been reasonably prominent in the area to have become alderman in 1940. I can't explain why he doesn't show up on any of your lists - unless he didn't become prominent until much later.
Cheers,
Brian

Offline Little Nell

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Re: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington
« Reply #73 on: Wednesday 26 April 06 22:29 BST (UK) »
Precisely - when I first started chasing your shadows, you had no dates to go on.

Quote
At some point they moved back to Lymington, where Annie died (1899). They lived with a great aunt (?), Priscilla Broomfield, nee Perkins (?), landlady of the Wheatsheaf and husband of Alderman Broomfield, local bigwig, mason, etc.

I assumed - wrongly in this case - that it was relatively close to when Annie died.  Since I have not found any more recent information online, it is rather difficult.

With several Walter Broomfields in Hamsphire in 1901, the last census we have at the moment, it isn't easy to be definite which one became which prominent person!

I am tempted to say that this is a pitfall of working only on hearsay, rather than facts, but you might shout "Ouch" again.  :P

Nell
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Offline Little Nell

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Re: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington
« Reply #74 on: Wednesday 26 April 06 22:43 BST (UK) »
I think I also said that
Quote
The only prominent male Broomfield in Lymington around that time is Walter Broomfield who becomes the borough water engineer by 1911.

That doesn't mean that there was not another one, but it is curious that two men by the name of Walter Broomfield would appear to have risen to positions of prominence in Lymington.

Quote
QUESTION 2: Is there any way of telling whether the Walter Broomfield (James's son) on the 1901 census is the guy who became the Borough Water Engineer in 1911 (carpenter to water engineer!) and/or Alderman Broomfield?

Difficult - especially if you wish to do everything without spending any money!  You need to find some children of said Walter - get a birth certificate and see what his profession is.

I agree. I can't see how Walter George who married Eva in 1895 is the same as Walter J W who married Priscilla in 1910.  So Walter the plumber in 1901 who was married to Eva (FACT) and who possibly became Borough Water Engineer by 1911 is NOT your man.  Plumber to Water Engineer is more likely.  Twenty year old Walter in Boldre in 1901 obviously arrived in Lymington later.

All speculation........unless you choose to verify something.  Up to you!!!  ;)

Nell

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Offline B.E.

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Re: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington
« Reply #75 on: Thursday 27 April 06 08:24 BST (UK) »
To all of you out there,
On reflection, I'm absolutely gobsmacked that you're still showing any interest whatsoever in my feeble, amateurish, cheapskate attempts to piece together my wife's family history. As I look back now to what I knew when I first started this thread - and some related ones - just a matter of weeks ago (ie: zilch) and what I know now, I'm even more amazed. So thanks again to those who have searched on my behalf and found all sorts of goodies. I'm still prepared to take Nell's barbs, because I know I'm on shaky, speculative ground much of the time, but one of the things I've actually learned along the way is that, while family hearsay is often confused, there's almost always some factual basis for the stories - the challenge has been to separate the wheat from the chaff.

So I'm going to continue to ask for assistance - in the knowledge that when you get fed up, you'll simply stop responding!

Let me tell you what I've learned so far about Walter Charles Snook, a man of almost complete mystery to his own granddaughter...

1861: Born in Bath Road, Lymington, to ex-squatter Henry Snook and his wife Charlotte Mantill.

1865: His mother died. Father apparently never remarried.

1871: Still there.

1881: Still there - a "mariner".

1884: Married local gardener's daughter, Annie Perkins. Moved to 23 Station St, Lymington.

1886: Annie Maud born.

1887: Walter Martell born.

1890: William Henry George (another mystery man!) born.

1891: Still at 23 Station St - a "yacht steward" (this seems to have been a Merchant Navy position)

1893: Agnes Emily Perkins born. His father, Henry, died (South Stoneham).

1893-1899: A bit of a gap (see questions below)

1899: His wife died (Lymington)

1901: Living on his own means at a hotel in Southampton dockland. His children scattered.

1906: Living in a different hotel in Northam.

1907: Apparently remarried, but wife's name not known (Bonnie Isaac or Fannie Woodcock).

1919: In the Merchant Navy - his ID card lists Bessie Snook (wife) as next-of-kin. Believed to be Bessie Evans. No idea if/when they married.

1925: Mentioned on son's marriage certificate as "caretaker" - probably of the fire station at 127 St Mary's Rd, Southampton

1925-1949: Virtually nothing known.

1949: Died in Birmingham, aged 88.

Other facts: Alderman Walter James William Broomfield figured significantly in his life. He was born at Dunsford and was distantly related via his mother, Elizabeth Jane Snook.

Other hearsay: He, Annie and the children moved to Dunsford at some stage in the 1890s and then moved on to the Wheatsheaf in Lymington, where the licensee was Priscilla Bright, who became wife of WJW Broomfield in 1910.

So here are the bits I can't work out:

1. What was the exact family relationship between Walter Charles Snook and Elizabeth Jane Snook? (I'm speculating that her father, Walter, might have been Henry's cousin, but that's as close as I can see them)

2. Why was there such a strong bond between Elizabeth Jane Snook and WCS? (Difficult to answer that genealogically!)

3. If WCS took his young family to Dunsford, why? (He seems to have been a career seaman, not a farmer)

4. Why/when did they move back to the Wheatsheaf, if it actually happened? (and was there any link between Priscilla Bright and the Snook/Broomfield families at the time or was it merely coincidencental that she took the Snooks in and later married WJWB?)

5. Where were they all when Annie Snook (nee Perkins) died in 1899? (her place of death is recorded as Lymington, but would that include Dunsford/Boldre?)

6. Why, on census night in 1901, were the two sons at Dunsford, the two daughters at separate addresses in Sholing, WCS in a hotel and Priscilla Bright nowhere at all?

7. Why did WJW Broomfield apparently play such a key part in the lives of his distant relations? (I don't see how anyone can possibly know that, but I'm documenting it as one of the mysteries)

If any of you can help with either additional facts or honest speculation, I'd be very grateful either way.
Cheers,
Brian


Offline Daisypetal

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Re: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington
« Reply #76 on: Thursday 27 April 06 15:58 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone,

Firstly my apologies, on looking more closely at the 1891 census which I transcribed earlier I think it shows Elizabeth Jane being 33 not 38. :-[

I've looked on the GRO index and can't find any birth of an Elizabeth Jane SNOOK between 1841-1844 but I can find the birth of

Elizabeth Ann SNOOK Sep Q 1848 Southampton v.7 p.217

This would fit with the daughter of Henry and Charlotte SNOOK as from the 1851 census (reply 5), the 1861 census (reply 4) and the 1871 census (reply 3), she is listed as being born in Southampton, Lymington and Beaulieu.

Then Elizabeth Ann seems to disappear and Elizabeth Jane appears after marrying James BROOMFIELD in 1879.

Does anyone think it's possible that these two are the same person? making Elizabeth BROOMFIELD nee SNOOK the sister of Walter Charles SNOOK  ???

Only getting the Marriage certificate of James BROOMFIELD and Elizabeth Jane SNOOK could prove this, and if it's not her at least you'd find out who she is. :)

Daisy


 
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Offline B.E.

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Re: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington
« Reply #77 on: Thursday 27 April 06 17:30 BST (UK) »
Daisy,
I like your approach, but you might have earned a slapped wrist from Nell as a result!!...

I know about Elizabeth Ann Snook and yes, she does seem to disappear off the face of the earth after having married William Thomas of Penarth in 1874. Our Elizabeth Jane Snook should have been born in 1857 or thereabouts - is your maths letting you down??

So I'm still preferring the Elizabeth C Snook of Bucklers Hard who shows up in the 1861 census, aged 4, especially as I can see the birth of Elizabeth Jane Snook in the New Forest district in the Dec quarter 1857 BMD index (2b 548).

Keep speculating - I've proven some of my own outlandish hunches already!
Cheers,
Brian


Offline B.E.

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Re: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington
« Reply #78 on: Thursday 27 April 06 18:21 BST (UK) »
I now have evidence that Walter Charles Snook was living in a Temperance Hotel in 1906. Clearly this implies it was an alcohol-free zone, but does it imply anything else?

Could anyone stay at these hotels or were they supposed to be for people "drying out"?

Offline Little Nell

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Re: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington
« Reply #79 on: Thursday 27 April 06 21:29 BST (UK) »
Quote
......but you might have earned a slapped wrist from Nell as a result!!...

Er, why would I give anyone a slapped wrist about this?  ???  Daisy's approach to the problem is a good one - eliminate those candidates that you can until you find the right one.  And ladies have been known to lie about their age.

If anyone can find Elizabeth Jane Snook in 1861 or 1871, it might be possible to establish where she fits in.


Nell
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Offline B.E.

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Re: The world-famous SNOOKs of Lymington
« Reply #80 on: Friday 28 April 06 06:25 BST (UK) »
Oh, Nell, I like a bit of banter...

Yes, it would be nice to find an Elizabeth Jane Snook in 1871 (in Bucklers Hard, Beaulieu, aged 14), but given the size of Bucklers Hard - not quite a metropolis, especially after shipbuilding had ceased there -  isn't it (extremely) highly likely that the Elizabeth C Snook listed there in 1861 (aged 4) is the Elizabeth Jane Snook of the 1891 census, b. Bucklers Hard, aged 33? And that the middle name is simply an enumerator cock-up??

Are you able to see if her father, Walter (from 1861 census), is related to Henry Snook (b.1824)? I'm speculating (!) that Henry's father, William (b. Beaulieu Rails, 1798) might be Walter's uncle.