1851/61/71 - Smith - Towcester

[Tati]

Gee  What a story!!
That's just f-a-n-t-a-s-t-i-q-u-e !!
Do we also know Samuel senior's name before he was a Smith? (West by any chance?  )

   

[seahall]

Hi Tanya/ Anthony

I know what you mean. 

I think it is because we are working upwards not down and really at the
moment not able to clarify with certificates "who is who".

It is certainly getting so the plot thickens. 

Sandy

[wamwig]

Yeah Tanya quite a story and its not over yet is it, appears his name was Moulton and the ages are a little out although of course like SJWS its possible he lied later! Also still looking for a possible connection with West. As you said I think we can discount the West in London, that would just be too much of a coincidence and very unlikely even for this story! I guess this will probably go fairly quiet for a while now, at least until I get the ordered birth certificates.

However in the meantime if anyone does find themselves at Northampton archives, please could they see if there is any record of him in the Workhouse Guardians minutes.

Many thanks all

Anthony

[wamwig]

Hi All

Well Arranroots looks like you were right, looking at the record for Frances Smith on the Families of Towcester website I found the following.

Northants Record Office
Title: Towcester Board of Guardians Minute Books
Abbrev: Towcester Board of Guardians Minute Books
Call Number: PL11
Text: 19 Oct 1841 Order of Affiliation in the bastardy case of Frances Smith of Towcester

Well now we know there is a record of it, with a reference as well, and with the best luck in the world I will be unlikely to get there for some time so if anybody does find themselves at the Northampton Record Office could they please do a lookup for me.

Regards

Anthony

[wamwig]

Hi all

Two of the certificates I ordered arrived today and it clears up a couple of things but then..........

Anyway easy one first

Frank Marriot Smith, first child of John Smith and Kate Smith (formerly Marriott) was born 19th December 1886 at 122 Manor Street, Braintree. He was registered by his father, who was described as a rivetter.

and then

Charlotte Ann Smith, first child of John Smith, was born 17th November 1866 at 19 Brunswick Street, Northampton. Her mother is given as Emma Smith (formerly Tooms!). She was registered by her mother and her fathers occupation was shoemaker.

However of course I have their marriage certificate dated 1877, which clearly indicates that they were not married at this time, but it does offer some proof that this was the Emma he was living with in 1871, there is also no mention of Halford. So if John was married before (and he is listed as a widower on the 1877 cert, or was this just to be the same as his wife) it would have to have been sometime between 1860 ish and 1865 and Emma's previous husband, Edward Halford, must have died between 1861 and 1865. Also in 1861 Edward and Emma had two children of 3 and 1 so what happened to them, maybe they all died together?

So two certificates and still not really much nearer to solving the puzzle or finding out who John Smiths first wife, if any, was!!

Any suggestions anyone?

Regards

Anthony

[seahall]

HI Anthony

I went to the Record Office to day and looked at the Minute books for Frances Smith
and the Quarter Sessions but didn't glean anything really.

Here is what the Guardian Book said.

Pg 275

The applications and Notices for orders of Affliliation in Frances Smiths (Towcester)
Bastardy Case were signed at this board - .

No name of father or note of a bond.

No mention in the Quarter Sessions either.

Sorry

Sandy 

[wamwig]

Sandy

Thanks for looking anyway, the one birth certificate I am waiting for is John Smith's, perhaps this might just tell us a little more, although I'm not that hopeful. I'm 99% sure that was him at the workhouse and I have what appears to be all of the census returns for him, but I wish I could find his first marriage and one to Kate Marriott.

Also his mothers parents turn up in a paper in the records of the Grafton estate regarding what appears to be a fine on a property, although from everything we have found so far it would suggest they had little money!

I'm sure the answers are out there somewhere. Maybe after getting his birth certificate its time to put it away for a while and come back in six months or so and look at the evidence again!

Regards

Anthony

[Tati]

Hi Anthony,

I have had a look through the complete death indexes 1861-1866 for the Halford's. Couldn't spot a good match for Edward (there are several, but none in Northampton).

Found these 2 possibles:
Henry Halford - June 1862 - Northampton - 3b 46
Stephen Halford - December 1863 - Northampton 3b 48

Tanja 

[wamwig]

Hi Tanja

Well that answers what happened to the two children, they were Henry and Stephen. Wonder where Edward is then, nothing is easy on this is it! 

My guess is that he probably died somewhere other than Northampton and is one of those you found, but which one!!

Anthony