1851/61/71 - Smith - Towcester

[mgeneas]

The marriage index does not include register office marriages or those in chapels (Methodist, Baptist etc)

There are a growing number of 1860 + marriages, but coverage is spotty. A complete uptodate list is on Alan's website.

Marilyn

[seahall]

Glad to hear that Marilyn.

Cheers Sandy

[seahall]

Hi Anthony

I looked through some of the Northampton Town Churches for your marriage of Samuel Smith to Emma.

The dates I covered were St Edmunds 1865-67. Not there.
St Giles 1865-1866. Not there.
St Sepulchres 1865-1866. Not there.

Sorry 

Sandy

[wamwig]

Sandy

Thanks for looking, Alan has checked his records again and cant find anything either. I'm sure he must be out there somewhere. Hopefully Charlotte's birth certificate will at least give Emma's maiden name, which should be a help.

Found his mother on the 1881 census though, they are back in London.

RG11
0060/133 p21
21 Swakeley Ter London, Middlesex, England

Samuel SMITH   Head   M   Male   60   Towcester, Northampton, England   House Decorator     
 Frances SMITH   Wife   M   Female   66   Towcester, Northampton, England       
 Edmund W. FIELD   Boarder      Male   21   Ontario, Canada   Retired Green Grocer     
 Richard IRELAND   Visitor   M   Male   22   Gloucester, England   Carpenter     
 Ellen IRELAND   Visitor   M   Female   30           
 Ellen IRELAND   Visitors Child      Female   > 1   Shepherds Bush, Middlesex, England 

Regards

Anthony

[seahall]

I am sure he is Anthony  yet seeing my gt gt grandparents had children in 1851 stating that they
were married  and yet did not marry until his real wife had died in 1869 I can see
your problem.  Did they or didn't they. 

Really gets you going to find the missing links doesn't it.

Cheers Sandy

[wamwig]

Sandy

Sometimes it just gnaws away at you though doesn't it!

I suppose Samuel and Emma's wedding might not have been 1865/6, all we really know is that it was between 1861 and 1871 and were only guessing the date based on Charlottes birthday of late 1866. It could just as easily have been earlier, or perhaps less likely, later! I'm sure he did marry this one though, as he is listed as a widower on the next one, although I am now less sure that he actually married Kate.

Regards

Anthony

[wamwig]

Morning all

Having found Samuel and Frances Smith (Samuel John West Smith's mother and possible father) in 1851, 1861 and 1881 could anyone complete the picture for 1871 please, it seems they have been moving about quite a bit.

Thanks

Anthony

[Tati]

Hi Anthony,

1871
RG10/61 104 20
Hammersmith, London
10 Hainesville Terrace
Samuel Smith, head, 50, Paper hanger, b. Northampton Towcester
Francis, wife, 56, b. do.
Frederick, son, 25, Decorator, b. Mddx Marylebone
Samuel, son, 15, b. do.
George, son, 13, b. do.

I don't want to spoil the fun but is there any serious reason to believe that these people are the right ones? As we know (if the Frances found in 1841 is his mother), she was nee Smith. Now we are supposing that she married a Smith too. Wouldn't we need to find a marriage, at least, to prove this? Otherwise any Frances born ca. 1815 Towcester would fit the bill, what do you  think?

I agree finding a Mr West next door was exciting, but this chap was born in London and living next door to them in London while she was already with husband Samuel. Are we supposing he would have had a child with her in Towcester when he was 15? 
Or what do we think the West bit comes from?

Or have I completely lost the plot by now     

[wamwig]

Tanja

Thanks for that and good point. I think I should add here that outside of this I have found that there were two Frances Smith born in Towcester in 1815 and one of them was Samuels mother, however one subsequently died in 1823 and the evidence suggests that the surviving Frances is indeed Samuel's mother.  I also received evidence late last night that suggests that the Samuel and Frances that are 'married' here were step brother and step sister as Frances mother died and her father later married someone who already had children and who were then subsequently baptised as Smith's, including one Samuel, a paper hanger!  As there appears to be no actual Samuel Smiths born in Towcester at that time this scenario seems highly likely. The West bit I am still working on, but may take some time.

So no I dont think you have lost the plot, but I think we are getting close to filling in many of the pieces.

Regards

Anthony