EDLINS in Leics.

[behindthefrogs]

Assuming that William de Burgh who died in Ireland in 1205 and William Fitz Edlin de Burgh died in the Holy Land in 1202 are correctly identified and the latter is the one who was Lord Deputy of Ireland and Sheriff of Cumberland amongst many other titles:

Then he had two sons Richard who lived in Shropshire and William, each of whom in turn had two sons Richard and William.  It is possible that one of these Richards is the Richard FitzEdlin who was freeman of Leicester in 1196 but the dates are very tight.  However for this to happen they would have to have been using FitzEdlin as a surname like we use it today.  My feeling is that this is all speculation and probably not relevant.

The reference to William Edelm in the 1296 Rutland Lay Subsidy is probably the first possible reference to the Edlin name in the area and we probably have to move on another hundred years to be certain.

David

[behindthefrogs]

The name Adeliza vaguely fits with the very early Edlin history in a number of ways.  I can find out nothing about the other two variants.

Change the spelling to Adelina and this is according the one of the stories the origin of the person named Edelin (Audlin, Audelin, Edlin) fitz John de Burgh, father of William Fitz Edlin was that he was named after a nun of that name who was cannonised.  She was a grand daughter of John of Boulogne who was an ancestor of William Fitz Edlin.

William the conqueror had a daughter Adeliza who was also a nun.

Adeliza de Lourain was the second wife of Henry I

Adeliza of Normandy (1029) married Enguerand III of Ponthieu.  The earlier dukes of Ponthieu figure in the suposed ancestory of William Fitz Edlin (baptised Willemo fillius Hadelinus) as the Dukes of Bolougne were descended from them.

George Manners MP for Cambridge in the 19th century who was related to the Duke of Rutland (family name Manners) married an Adeliza.

David

[midmum]

Hello and thanks for the reply. Sorry I didn't explain why I asked. Anyway I was looking at the tree for the Manners family and in particular the 5th Duke. His second daughter was an Emmeline Charlotte Elizabeth (died 1855), she married Hon. Charles Stuart Wortley. I remembered the name as on our tree. As this was the time that a George was apparently at the castle as a gardener and a George married an Ann Wortley could this be a further connection?

Nottingham university library has some papers relating to the estate and staff of the 5th Duke so I will try and access them.

The Dukes also hold the title of the Barony of de Roos and they acquired Belvior through Isabel the daughter and heiress of William d'Albini of Belvior. I came across lots of d'Albini in the area and wondered again if this was later altered to Edlin? Sort of similar. There was an Adeliza Gertrude Elizabeth b1810 to William de Albin.

I realise this all probably wide of the mark but welcomed any thoughts on it.

Now I have another strange twist of fate to tell you. I rang my mum earlier to tell her about the Edlin tale and the beer and we have arranged to visit the castle at Easter. Then about one hour later she called me back to say she had been contacted to say she has won a family ticket for admission to the castle and a bottle of champagne! That has to be better than beer doesn't it.

Will make sure we drink to your good health.

Best wishes Heather.

[behindthefrogs]

If you think it is worth pursuing the d'Albini theory it might be worth looking at the D'Albini and the Manning Coat of Arms while you are visiting.  If they did inherit Belvoir through that marriage then I would have expected the two CofA to have been quartered by the next generation, with the d'Albini arms top left and bottom right.(from behind i.e. the shield bearers view)  The d'Albini Arms might give a clue and also the crest on the helmet that they used.

Prior to that the Mannings presumably occupied their Derbyshire residence.  I have forgotten where it was for the minute. 

David

[Suspice]

Hi Midmum, well isn't your Mum a clever one !! Now you can all visit the Castle in style - good for you. Do you want further extracts from Lester Edlin ?
Kindest regards, John

[midmum]

Hello!
I am afraid I am lost by the descriptions of coats of arms. I will certainly look them up and pass them on as they will probably mean nothing to me, I hadn't realised that marriages were incorporated into them.
John, I would LOVE to have more from Lester, especially if there are more such juicy gems to check out and maybe hint at connections with the grand nobility. I really hope that the picture exists because the face of an Edlin that far back would be great.
Best wishes Heather

[midmum]

Hello again,
this site mentions the Manners family and their crests and coats of arms etc
www.electricscotland.com
It describes how George Manners became the Baron de Roos, the highest rank and married King Edward IV daughter Anne Plantatagenet.

Isabel d'Albine (b@1224) married Sir Robert de Ros. She was the only daughter of William d'Albini (b@1192 at Belvior)and Albreda de Bissit.
William had a younger sibling named Odinel. Their parents were William d'Albini and Margery de Umfraville. Their grandfather was also a William b@1128 at Belvior son of Queen Adeliza of Louvain.
 Belvior figures a lot in this family and it is through Isabel that came into the de Ro(o)s family and thence the Duke of Rutlands.

Unsure whether all this matters!! Will let you decide.
Heather

[behindthefrogs]

At the risk of boring you about coats of arms, you can almost draw a family tree from them, particularly if you have a number of generations showing the differences.  Starting from the top:

The crest on top of the helmet usually comes from the most powerful family down the male or female line.

The type of helmet shows you the rank of the person e.g. Duke or Gentleman

The shape of the shield shows you whether they are male, a single or widowed female(a lozenge), a member of the clergy (oval) etc.  

They are always described from behind i.e. the shield bearer's view.

When  marrying a woman whose father is entitled to arms the two shields are made into one side by side with the woman's on the left.  If the father dies and she is the heiress then her arms are moved to a small shield in the centre of her husband's   Only in this latter case on inheriting the eldest son will quarter the two shields otherwise he will inherit the father's original shield and his mother's shield disappears.

It gets more complicated when you start to consider the younger sons and sons before the death of the father.

David

[behindthefrogs]

I think I am being a bit thick Heather.  Where did you find that information on that site.

What I have found is that the Manners were related to the new leader of the Liberal Party!!!

David