Tracing an immigrant . where do I start? - CARLSEN

[Cell]

Hi,
I didn't know where to post this, here or in the beginners room:

Where do I start on tracing immigrants?  My Husbands G, G grandfather came from Russia  "Charles Carlsen" ( although I think it was a  Scandinavian country he came from in  today's geography  , but born In then Russia ,  the borders  moving in history)

He was a sailor  (ships carpenter) , and always marked the censuses For ( former) Russia .One of the censuses  (1891) he said he came from Christ something ( it looks like Christanasher, but there is no such place that I know of. It's impossible to tell by the writing)

In 1901  it says on the census  Russian  British subject, again saying Russia where he was born , 1891 and 1881 it said For Russia. and didn't say British subject. So I would guess he gained his British citizenship between 1891 and 1901.

 We Haven't even looked into tracing this ancestor because thought it may be a hopeless cause, and resigned  ourselves  to think that there is no way to trace his line. Scandinavia is full of carlsen's unlike the Uk. And I don't know where to start.

I've got a ship's name he was working on in 1881, when he was "unmarried" ( it was docked in England, Plymouth , so I have him on a census for 1881, which was the SS Greece - a ship that used  to  carry  a lot of immigrants going to the USA  I believe )

Anyway my question is, when they  got  British citizenship are there good  records anywhere  for this in the early days . Basically where do I start on tracing this ancestor, or finding records for his British citizenship . Are there any? ( perhaps this really  should be in the beginners forum) , and will his British citizenship records ( if any) list his parents in Russia  ( who I don't think came to Britain) , or do they  hold any  relevant info on it that I can use to trace him further? Or are these records hopeless for that type of thing?

Also would he have got British citizenship by marrying his wife ( who is British - Welsh, swansea ,where he lived  with her and died ) - although I don't think they were ever legally  married, I went through twenty years looking for their marriage  to order their marriage cert ( cost me a fortune!) , and there isn't one entry for him ( 1837 site). Or would he have gained it by the amount of  time he lived in Britain.

In other words - Help!!  .
Where  on earth do I start  with  tracing him any further into his own country? ( where do I find his British citizenship records) . I have 1901, 1891 and 1881 , in 1881 he was unmarried  on a docked ship ,  1891 and 1901 he is with his "wife"  in the censuses .. and that's all
 I can't get a marriage cert, I haven't found a marriage, and honestly don't think they were ever legally  married ( they were living in sin) . I have his daughters Birth cert , my husbands G grandmother, but that does  not tell me anything that I don't already know about him.

I just don't know where to start on this person, and how to trace him back, and who his parents are.

Should I give up before I  even start on this person? Or are there ways to trace him  back into Russia and so on , to find his parents etc?

Thanks

[Cell]

P.S

This is from the 1891 census, where I can not make out the place name where he was born ( his  other census in  1881 say "For  ( former) Russia, and  1901 says Russian British subject " - this 1891  one says the place name, but I can't make it out what it says)

Can anyone make out this place name,  christinarker, Christinasher it looks like to me.  Or have any ideas  what it says, or what it is supposed to say,  and any idea where it is?  I don't think those  two above place names  exist . I think the census person has  misspelt the name

Thank you for any ideas

[JDG]

Hello,

Whilst it appears fairly hopeless at the moment, don't give up!

There are few options and comments I can list -  a bit like brainstorming!

Swansea had many immigrants  -  and you may well find that the area where lived was mainly where immigrants lived. There were lots of Italians in Wales for example -  perhaps contact the relevent FHS, local studies library, records office and see if there was a specific Russian community.

Check about possible places of worship. For example, teh Italian community was so large in Clerkenwell London they have their own church & have done so since the circa 1870s, the Italian community in Woking Surrey also have a church from 1950! 

He may have been Jewish.
Contact  the Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain http://www.jgsgb.org.uk/
Or, if the boundaries changed the Anglo German FHS may have some details
http://www.art-science.com/agfhs/

Registration of Aliens visiting England started in 1792, and your relative would have had to registered with the Police.  Naturalisation records would be at Kew. Many of the Alien records may not have survived or perhaps will be at the records office.

You mention Plymouth. have you tried Devon Records Office regarding any passenger lists? Its a long shot, but worth a try? My local paper (in South Devon) where we still have a working dock lists each week which ships are docking or are in dock. We often see Russian ships here!

I also came across these web sites which might be of interest.

http://www.mtu-net.ru/rrr/

http://www.genealogylinks.net/europe/rus.htm

One further long shot is have searched for a marriage using slight varients? - such as Carlson instead of Carlsen.
Have you tried FreeBMD? posted to the Russian list on Rootsweb, Or to the Welsh mailing lists -  there is one for Swansea. Even placed a posting on the Welsh section of Rootschat.

I would records any references to your Carlsen surname that I came across in the UK  as you never know if there is perhaps a connection.

There is also the Federation of Eastern Europe FH Societies http://feefhs.org/
There is also an online map room http://feefhs.org/maps/indexmap.html

I hope that this lot has given you some hope! Good Luck!

[Welsh Jen]

The first one looks like Christinarler / Christinarker / Chrisilinarker / Chrisitinarker ?  ?


The second one is Glamorgan Swansea

[kaja]

Hello,
Is this not a form of CHRISTIANIA  [ OSLO ] Norway.
Industries include shipbuilding.

Kaja

[Cell]

Thank's for the all the replies.
I'll have a good  look through those links you provided JDG.
It does look as if I have work cut out tracing him, and may have to wait until I get back to the UK to really have a good crack at tracing him.

Yes, I've tried all varients of Carlsen. I went through twenty years of all quarters looking at the "CAR" entries  ( I went  through them  all on the 1837 site) , and none match him. I have his wife's maiden name ( from one of  thair childrens birth certificate), and have traced her to the next generation back so far. Also I searched using her maiden name in the marriages on the free BMD. It looks like they never legally got married, although they were living with each other up until he died ( there's a death for him on the BMD)

"christiania" sounds  very  plausible  kaja. He was a ship's carpenter,  he also named his daughter, my husband's G grandmother Chritistina. The family always thought she  was Swedish until we started to trace her and discovered it wasn't her but her father, and it seems he came from  then Russia to the  UK ( according to the other censuses we have) But with a name like Carlsen, I doubt very much he was  a Russian , but scandanavian
 
Thank you  all for the help

[UKgirl]

Well, I simply typed in "Carlsen" into Ancestry's Census and immediately this popped up in front of my eyes for 1871:

Carl Carlsen, married, male, 23, able seaman, born: Christinestadt, Russia

Isn't this the same man? Carl>Charles

On a vessel named "Fortuna"

In the Royal Dock Grimsby, County: Lincolnshire

Registration District: Great Grimsby

What do you think?

UKgirl

[UKgirl]

Hello Cell,

I don't know whether you ever actually looked at the original version of your 1881 Census for Chas. Carlsen, or just the LSD transcription, but they are somewhat different.

Under the heading "Where Born" it actually says "Finland Russia". It does not say "(For) Russia" as the LSD version states.

However, under the final column "Deaf-and-Dumb etc." where notes are often made (for example, in Manchester there is a marking (like a tick) for all those born in Ireland, which has been added at a later date) there is a squiggle next to all those born overseas. This has also been added later (different writing) and in some places can be clearly read as "For", presumably denoting "Foreigner" or "Foreign born".

Presumably, as in Manchester, someone was collecting additional statistics at a later date.

So all your pondering about "place of birth" is actually answered clearly for you.

In addition, a Google search shows Christinestadt as Russian Finland.

Perhaps you have already sussed all this out, but if not, it's a little extra to add to your info.

Have you considered that your fellow was married twice? You know what they say about sailors

I also did a search of Grimsby and Fortuna (I am obviously short of something to do!) and I came up with an funny section about sailors' wives absconding and the sinking of this ship "Fortuna" at a later date. It makes for a little extra colour to your notes!!!!

Good luck

UKgirl

[ec]

Hi

If you look on 1891 he appears to have a child, Charles (11) who should appear on the 1881 census with mother Mary - what is her maiden name?

ec