Author Topic: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige  (Read 33043 times)

Offline E.M. Wilson

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Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #189 on: Sunday 21 February 21 04:55 GMT (UK) »
As per Records of the Castlemaine Pioneers by Rigby Limited 1972 ISBN 085179386 x

On page 95 when he is 63 years old, Walter Wilson (Master Baker, Selkirk presumably) mentions that he built an oven on Kangaroo Flat, opposite Dr. O'Donnel's and not far from Gunn's Hotel. 

On page 169 when he is 72 years old, he writes that a horse "dropped dead in front of Gunn's Hotel". 

Here, in this book he has two opportunities (if he is a real Wilson) to mention how the Wilson Family is a Sept of the Gunn Clan but he does not mention it.  The Gunn Hotel and the Gunn Clan is of no consequence to him. 

On page 102, Walter Wilson writes "For the present, I will detain you no longer, but bid you "Good Night"  in the words of Ebenezr Elliott, the Corn Law rhymer - "He that hath done his best, let him rest." He chose a quote from an Elliott, his Father's name is Elliot.  More compelling, if he was raised by a Wilson, he would have mentioned that James Wilson, Economist published The Corn Laws in 1853 if he was a relative. How could he leave that out if he was a REAL Wilson.  They were contemporaries.  There was no relationship with Walter Wilson, Cabinet-maker of Hawick.  They didn't know eachother. He didn't know or know of James Wilson, Economist. Walter Wilson a.k.a Walter Bell a.k.a Walter Wilson Elliot a.k.a Walter Wilson of Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia was not a member of the Wilson Family of Hawick.


Offline BrettMaximus

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Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #190 on: Sunday 21 February 21 05:41 GMT (UK) »
You have simply not been paying attention E.M Wilson (Elise Marie Alvarez).

And you are truly grasping at straws. Do you really think that humble Walter Wilson needs to drop the name of James Wilson (his 1st cousin once removed) just because there is a mention of a the words of a Corn Law Rhymer? Really?

1851 Census.. Walter Wilson listed as 28 years old (Born 1823 remember, and he was recorded as 18 years old in 1841). Recorded in 1851 as a Master Baker in Selkirk. Birthplace listed as England, as in Riddings, England, which as Walter's own words, described his birth place as being in England and a stone's throw from the border. See attached for the 1851 census and Riddings, England.

Calling him a bastard in this day and age just shows what a nasty person you are Elise. How many children these days are born out of wedlock?  Are you running around New York calling them all bastards?

We are not talking about the Royal family here, just a Wilson family from Hawick, who just happened to have done well in the Hosiery and Tweed industries. And one or two of them made a name for themselves, such as James Wilson (1805-1860) "The Economist" Magazine founder, and perhaps Sir James Glenny Wilson (1849-1929) who emigrated to New Zealand from Hawick.

If Walter Wilson's problem with you, is that he was born out of wedlock, then that is your problem. You knew all this before you turned nasty on me.

Walter was a wonderful soul and much loved and respected by the people around him in Scotland and Australia.

Walter was born on the 5th of April 1823 in Riddings, England. His baptism record says his Mother is Wilhelmina Bell from Riddings (England) and that his Father is Walter Wilson (Carpenter) from Hawick (Scotland). He was baptised at Kirk Andrews Upon Esk, Cumberland, England on the 6th of April 1823. Kirk Andrews Upon Esk, Cumberland is South of Riddings, toward Carlisle (England). And likely chosen as it was the closest Presbyterian church to Riddings at the time for a Baptism.

Walter Wilson Senior (1798-1862) was known as a carpenter, a joiner and a cabinet maker at different times. He lived at 9 High Street Hawick for most of his life and retired to SilverbutHall Lodge by the time of the 1861 Census. It was another man that built the SilverbutHall mansion after W.W Seniors death. (Check the Pigots Directories, which were like a Yellow Pages of that era.)

In 1844 Walter Wilson (1823-1903) wrote in his diary of the receival of a letter from his father in Hawick (W.W Senior) and that tears flowed down his cheek when something is mentioned about a long departed soul who had in part played Mother to him. This would be referring to Janet Wilson (Gray) who died in 1829, a year or so after she gave birth to Jessie Wilson in 1828. I incorrectly called Janet as Isabella in a previous post, as W.W Snr later married another Gray by the name of Isabella.

Walter Wilson's (1823-1903) marriage record also states that his father is Walter Wilson - Cabinet Maker.

Walter Wilson's (1823-1903) Bible clearly shows his father as W.W with a place of residence in Hawick, and it clearly lists his Mother's name "Wilhelmina Bell". It clearly mentions his half siblings names including Jessie that Married G.H (George Hobkirk), and also the children that Wilhelmina had with Robert Elliot whom she married in England in 1824 from memory.

In my opinion, any references to Canonbie are mistakes, as assumptions were made that Walter was born in Scotland rather than England. I don't think people knew where such a small village of Riddings was in England, so they might have been told that it is not far from Canonbie, which is correct. But Canonbie is on the Scottish side of the border.

I shall leave you all with this poem written by Walter Wilson in 1844 when he was to leave Scotland to work in London to further his talents as a Baker. He stayed there for 5 years.

Adieu to the rapture that thrills
through the heart on the red heather heath
when the sunlight sleeps calmly above, and the loud
troubled tempest roars wildly beneath

Adieu to the birchen clad braes
where the rivulets murmur down the sweet vales

Then here’s to the hills of Caledonia
here’s to the brave heather land!

And here`s to the smile of a sweet Scottish Maid
and the grasp of a Scotsman`s hand.

Caledonia, when thee I forget
proud land of my Fathers before me
I`ll forget my best Friend, the Maid that I love
and the dear loving Mother who loves me.


Walter wrote this at age 21.

P.S Elise, you should get one of your male relatives to do a Y-DNA test like I have already done with FamilyTreeDNA.

Oh, but I forgot, none of them are talking to you are they? What about Professor Mike Wilson (Thomas Michael Aubrey Wilson)? You know, the one who visited you inside of "you know where" in 2005! 

Brett



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Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #191 on: Sunday 21 February 21 09:41 GMT (UK) »
"His" Bible refers to the Elliot Chidren, fathered by Robert Elliot born in Canonbie, Scotland in 1801. They're all from Canonbie, Scotland. See Robert Elliot's birth record attached. The whole family was born in Canonbie, Scotland just like W.B.W. a.k.a Walter Bell a.k.a Walter Wilson Elliot a.k.a. Walter Wilson.
Rubbish. This time you are not only clutching at straws, you are clutching at non-existent straws.

Walter Wilson's original baptism record, already posted twice on this thread, shows that he was born in England, not in Canonbie. Not surprising, because the subsequent censuses show that Wilhelmina was also born in Kirkandrew in Cumberland.
The birthplaces of the subsequent husband and children of Wilhelmina Bell are irrelevant, because they have no bearing on the identity of her illegitimate son's father, but just for the record each and every one of the children, according to the 1851, 1861 and 1871 census when Wilhelmina was living in Penrith, was born in Cumberland.
And there are NO records of baptisms of Walter Wilsons or Walter Elliots in Canonbie.

There is only one Walter Wilson Elliot* in the Scottish records, born 1860 and died in Scotland in 1940. Far too young to be the son of Wilhelmina who married in Australia in 1860.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline BrettMaximus

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Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #192 on: Sunday 21 February 21 09:52 GMT (UK) »
"His" Bible refers to the Elliot Chidren, fathered by Robert Elliot born in Canonbie, Scotland in 1801. They're all from Canonbie, Scotland. See Robert Elliot's birth record attached. The whole family was born in Canonbie, Scotland just like W.B.W. a.k.a Walter Bell a.k.a Walter Wilson Elliot a.k.a. Walter Wilson.
Rubbish. This time you are not only clutching at straws, you are clutching at non-existent straws.

Walter Wilson's original baptism record, already posted twice on this thread, shows that he was born in England, not in Canonbie. Not surprising, because the subsequent censuses show that Wilhelmina was also born in Kirkandrew in Cumberland.
The birthplaces of the subsequent husband and children of Wilhelmina Bell are irrelevant, because they have no bearing on the identity of her illegitimate son's father, but just for the record each and every one of the children, according to the 1851, 1861 and 1871 census when Wilhelmina was living in Penrith, was born in Cumberland.
And there are NO records of baptisms of Walter Wilsons or Walter Elliots in Canonbie.

There is only one Walter Wilson Elliot* in the Scottish records, born 1860 and died in Scotland in 1940. Far too young to be the son of Wilhelmina who married in Australia in 1860.

Hi @Forfarian, You may have meant something different in the last line? Did you mean the marriage of Walter Wilson and Janet Brydon in 1860?

And 100% correct on the Elliot Family being in Penrith on the census records.

Cheers

Brett


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Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #193 on: Sunday 21 February 21 09:52 GMT (UK) »
Here, in this book he has two opportunities (if he is a real Wilson) to mention how the Wilson Family is a Sept of the Gunn Clan but he does not mention it.  The Gunn Hotel and the Gunn Clan is of no consequence to him. 
Because the idea that all Wilsons are connected to Clan Gunn is fantasy.

The Surname Wilson means 'son of William'. William is one of the commonest given names in the English-speaking world, so it follows that the surname Wilson (and variants) must have arise independently in many places in Scotland and of course in England.

So there probably were some Wilsons who belonged to Clan Gunn, but that is a very long way from meaning that all Wilsons belong to Clan Gunn. That idea is a fabrication of the Brigadoon industry and has no place in genealogy.

And it might come as a surprise that most Lowland and Border Scots do not feel any particular affinity to any Highland clan. Borderers may feel an affinity to one or other of the Border families, but until Sir Walter Scott started romanticising the clans in the early 19th century it would not have occurred to them that they had anything to do with the clan system.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

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Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #194 on: Sunday 21 February 21 09:54 GMT (UK) »
Hi @Forfarian, You may have meant something different in the last line? Did you mean the marriage of Walter Wilson and Janet Brydon in 1860?
Yes.

The only recorded Walter Wilson Elliot was born in 1860, therefore he cannot be the Walter Wilson who married Janet Brydon in Australia in 1860.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline BrettMaximus

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Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #195 on: Sunday 21 February 21 09:56 GMT (UK) »
Roger that @Forfarian

Hi @Forfarian, You may have meant something different in the last line? Did you mean the marriage of Walter Wilson and Janet Brydon in 1860?
Yes.

The only recorded Walter Wilson Elliot was born in 1860, therefore he cannot be the Walter Wilson who married Janet Brydon in Australia in 1860.

Offline majm

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Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #196 on: Sunday 21 February 21 10:17 GMT (UK) »
5 PMs...  five ! 

Right,  well Clan GUNN ... hogwash.... the British Colony of Victoria was hived off from the British Colony of New South Wales in 1851.   Huge inflows of people from around the world came by ship, most suffering gold fever.  People from California, China, The sub-continent,  Italy, Germany, France, Spain,   ... the melting pot for EGALITY .... birth of democracy, .... who your ancestors were had no bearing on how you were received in your community.   NO ONE would have boasted about being Gunn Clan or any other clan. 

Calling anyone a Bastard in Australia can be one of the greatest compliments awarded.   "You Bastard"  if spoken aloud with a friendly gesture is often considered as a badge of honour.... 

But as for presuming a person's surname ought to be amended to reflect his mum's subsequent marriage to someone who was NOT his actual dad, and to do so, nearly 200 years after he was born ....  now that's plainly lack of understanding.

JM.

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Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #197 on: Sunday 21 February 21 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Tell me this, if W.B.W. a.k.a. Walter Bell a.k.a. Walter Wilson Elliot a.k.a Walter Wilson had a relationship with his father why was he not the heir apparent?
Because none of the Walter Wilsons actually left a will.

There are two confirmations of testaments of Walter Wilsons in Hawick in 1848 and 1849 respectively. Neither contains an actual will, and even if Wilhelmina's son had been the son of either of them, which he can't have been because Wilhelmina's son wrote to his father in Hawick in 1852, he could not have inherited in the absence of a will because he was illegitimate.

Wilhelmina's son's father died in 1862 but there is no record of the confirmation of his testament, so he obviously left no will either. I imagine that his daughter Jessie Wilson or Hobkirk would have got anything left by him, being not only his only legitimate child, but also the only one to remain in Hawick, her two illegitimate half-brothers having emigrated.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.