Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige

[BrettMaximus]

Feel free to message me Josephine as I may be able to help with the Wilson connections for you.

Brett

[Josephine]

Feel free to message me Josephine as I may be able to help with the Wilson connections for you.

Brett

Thank you, Brett.

Regards,
Josephine

[BrettMaximus]

Part of an interview with my GG Grandfather Walter Wilson (1823-1903).

Walter whose father was also Walter the Cabinet Maker/Carpenter of Hawick.

The interview is dated 24 September 1886 and it is from the book "Records of the Castlemaine Pioneers".

My GG Grandfather, Walter Wilson (1823-1903) who came out to Australia in 1852 for the Victorian Gold Rush.

He was a Baker, who did his baking apprenticeship in Selkirk, not all that far from Hawick. I have travelled there on the bus myself in 2014. From the age of 21, (1844) Walter spent 5 years in London furthering is skills as a baker,  and then later setting up shop for himself in Selkirk as a Master Baker (1851 Census records him as such).

Now why would Walter's fellow diggers (gold miners) think that he was a Carpenter? Where on earth did he pick up these skills as a Baker?

Could it be from growing up in his father and grandfather's house who just happened to be Carpenters and Cabinet Makers? They lived at 9 High Street, Hawick with their workshop at the rear of the premises.

Please see the attached snippet from the book and a section of the 1824 Hawick map.

Brett   

You may need to scroll the image across to see the full text.

[E.M. Wilson]

Here is an excerpt from the new 2021 version of The Hawick Word Book writing by Brett's Friend, Douglas Scott.


P. 3532 states

"By 1861 he was a retired cabinet-maker living at Silverbuthall
House. He had a son called Walter (b.1823), ap-
parently before he was married (with the mother
being Wilhelmina Bell); this son became a baker
in Selkirk and then emigrated to Australia. He
rstly married Janet Gray (who probably died
in 1829). He also appears to have had an ille-
gitimate son (Robert Brodie Wilson, 1840{1906)
with Margaret Brodie. In 1856 he secondly mar-
ried Isabella (c.1824{98, from Lilliesleaf), daugh-
ter of farmer James Gray; they had a daughter,
Jessie (1828{1913), who married George Hobkirk,
of Slitrig Villa. He was said to be very keen
on shing, and left his business largely to be
run by John Rae, while he went on angling ex-
cursions. He was also said to be a great story-
teller. An early photograph of him exists."


As I stated earlier, the Hawick Word Book is not a reliable source.  Again, here is another presumption that has no evidence to back it up...except for the fact that Brett has not only inserted himself into my family but has convinced his Friend, Douglas Scott, the Author of the Hawick Word Book to insert Brett's guess about his Great, Great, Great Grandfather's lineage into a book that most people would consider a good source.  This is an example of what I have been saying all along, there is no documentation and no link that can be shown of Brett's Walter Wilson Elliot being the son of my Walter Wilson, Cabinet-maker. Perhaps he is the son of Walter Wilson, the Skinner.  Why isn't the Son, Walter's last name appearing in Mr. Scott's paragraph? What is the proof for these statements?  Brett's word? What research backs up this new 2021 edited version.  It is very different from the old version of the Hawick Word Book. 

I find it very interesting that the death certificate of Walter Wilson Elliot (Brett's Grandfather) states that his Mother's name is Wilhelmina Riddings. 

Why did he not know his own mother's name and where she was from? She was Wilhelmina Bell from Riddings, UK? 

Wouldn't you know your Mother's name if you spent any time with her? 

Why does his grave say he was born in Canonbie, Scotland? 

Why does Wilhelmina Bell's Grandaughter, Sibella Elliot's birth record show that she was born in Canonbie too?  They were from Canonbie. 

When the book that Brett quotes says that “he was writing to his father in Hawick”  who was that?  Was it Robert Elliot, of Yorkshire whose family and clan was originally all located in Hawick?  Or, was it John Dobie in Hawick? 

Where is the proof of the emigration to Australia when you can't even identify who the person is and who's son he is?

There was no Walter listed on the Diadem or the Wanata going to Australia. 

How do you make the connection that Brett's Walter Wilson Elliot is the son of Walter Wilson, Cabinet-maker in Hawick when there are NO records of this and then put it in a book that people are going to think is a credible source?

The Hawick Word Book has lost all credibility when it has not done it's own research and fact finding.

Brett has just made Douglas Scott sink to his level.

[majm]

Thank you for sharing this today.

JM.

Here is an excerpt from the new 2021 version of The Hawick Word Book writing by Brett's Friend, Douglas Scott.


P. 3532 states

"By 1861 he was a retired cabinet-maker living at Silverbuthall
House. He had a son called Walter (b.1823), ap-
parently before he was married (with the mother
being Wilhelmina Bell); this son became a baker
in Selkirk and then emigrated to Australia. He
rstly married Janet Gray (who probably died
in 1829). He also appears to have had an ille-
gitimate son (Robert Brodie Wilson, 1840{1906)
with Margaret Brodie. In 1856 he secondly mar-
ried Isabella (c.1824{98, from Lilliesleaf), daugh-
ter of farmer James Gray; they had a daughter,
Jessie (1828{1913), who married George Hobkirk,
of Slitrig Villa. He was said to be very keen
on shing, and left his business largely to be
run by John Rae, while he went on angling ex-
cursions. He was also said to be a great story-
teller. An early photograph of him exists."


As I stated earlier, the Hawick Word Book is not a reliable source.  Again, here is another presumption that has no evidence to back it up...except for the fact that Brett has not only inserted himself into my family but has convinced his Friend, Douglas Scott, the Author of the Hawick Word Book to insert Brett's guess about his Great, Great, Great Grandfather's lineage into a book that most people would consider a good source.  This is an example of what I have been saying all along, there is no documentation and no link that can be shown of Brett's Walter Wilson Elliot being the son of my Walter Wilson, Cabinet-maker. Perhaps he is the son of Walter Wilson, the Skinner.  Why isn't the Son, Walter's last name appearing in Mr. Scott's paragraph? What is the proof for these statements?  Brett's word? What research backs up this new 2021 edited version.  It is very different from the old version of the Hawick Word Book. 

I find it very interesting that the death certificate of Walter Wilson Elliot (Brett's Grandfather) states that his Mother's name is Wilhelmina Riddings. 

Why did he not know his own mother's name and where she was from? She was Wilhelmina Bell from Riddings, UK? 

Wouldn't you know your Mother's name if you spent any time with her? 

Why does his grave say he was born in Canonbie, Scotland? 

Why does Wilhelmina Bell's Grandaughter, Sibella Elliot's birth record show that she was born in Canonbie too?  They were from Canonbie. 

When the book that Brett quotes says that “he was writing to his father in Hawick”  who was that?  Was it Robert Elliot, of Yorkshire whose family and clan was originally all located in Hawick?  Or, was it John Dobie in Hawick? 

Where is the proof of the emigration to Australia when you can't even identify who the person is and who's son he is?

There was no Walter listed on the Diadem or the Wanata going to Australia. 

How do you make the connection that Brett's Walter Wilson Elliot is the son of Walter Wilson, Cabinet-maker in Hawick when there are NO records of this and then put it in a book that people are going to think is a credible source?

The Hawick Word Book has lost all credibility when it has not done it's own research and fact finding.

Brett has just made Douglas Scott sink to his level.

[BrettMaximus]

What a load of rubbish E.M Wilson (Elise Marie Alvarez) AKA Mike in this thread!

Walter's headstone says Canonbie, because a 3rd cousin once removed (Don Wilson) had guessed at that due to what Walter said in an interview. About being a stone's throw from the border. Don figured it was Canonbie, but it was Riddings, England. A stone's throw from Scotland.

This headstone or monument is a new one that was ordered by Don and other family members that contributed.

The old one was in disrepair. Attached is a photo of the old headstone that is in my Uncle Jack's shed.

Also attached, a snippet from an Interview with Walter Wilson 1823-1903 where we can see where Don somehow got the idea that he must be referring to Canonbie in Scotland, yet it was Riddings, England.

Born on April 5th 1923 in Riddings, Baptised on April 6th not far from Riddings, and then taken to Hawick, Scotland by his father "Walter Wilson" the Cabinet Maker of then 9 High Street, Hawick.

E.M Wilson also states: "I find it very interesting that the death certificate of Walter Wilson Elliot (Brett's Grandfather) states that his Mother's name is Wilhelmina Riddings".

Walter Wilson Elliot was a grandson son of Wilhelmina Elliot (Bell) and Robert Elliot. Walter Wilson Elliot was born in 1857 and died in 1867 from my records.

Wilhelmina Bell did not play a part (in person) in Walter Wilson's life after birth and baptism. (1823-1903).

He was raised by his father Walter Wilson of Hawick, Cabinet Maker of Hawick (1798-1862), and then took on an apprenticeship in near by Selkirk as a young lad.

Handwritten in Walter's bible, it also states Jessie as a sibling Married to G.H (George Hobkirk).

His other mentioned siblings were half siblings who were the children of Wilhelmina Bell and Robert Elliot. For Walter to know of them, then he must have been in touch with them all by letter one would thing, as Walter says that he never set foot again on English soil until the age of 21. Perhaps he caught up with them all on his way to London in 1844?

YAWNNN!

Brett

[BrettMaximus]

Also an extract from my GG Grandfather's diary or day book where he took notes about the days events for every day of his voyage from Scotland to Australia in 1852. Walter Wilson 1823-1903.

July 8, 1852

Still in Plymouth Sound.  We are making final arrangements for the voyage.  Weather quite warm and sultry as we anticipate meeting with in Australia.  Sick at heart wishing to depart, and feel it tiresome in being detained so long.  The passengers in good working order for voyage, as regards to berths, Messes, etc.  We expect to sail soon.  Have addressed letters to my father in Hawick and to my mother in Penrith – to Mr Lewis - Bookseller, John Brydon - Merchant, and Andrew Inglis - Mason.

As the last I will write within sight of my dear Native Land – hence, I take this favourable opportunity of saying a farewell to home and friends, under circumstance so extremely peculiar that I am forced to mark this as an era in my existence rarely met or encountered in the lot of one out of a thousand of my fellow creatures.  If I have acted rashly or injudiciously in any point, I pray god I may be forgiven now, and not carry with me to the land of my intended sojourn, as unrepentant and an unforgiven soul.

9 o’clock, evening.  I ask God’s blessing upon our voyage – while the crew weigh anchor to set sail.  May our vessel speed, and the wind waft us thither in safety.

My friend and cabin mate, Thomas Wood, from Galashiels, and self, having finished a letter to James Scott, to be sent by the owners of the vessel on going ashore – go on deck to join in the cheers given by the passengers at our departure.  One cheer more, and we are off upon our deep sea track. 

Little regret seems to hang about the hearts of the company, as all and sundry join with their lungs to commemorate the event a loud huzzas that threaten to rend the vessel.  Scarcely a breath of air floats to fill the canvas, and the ship slowly ventures over the barrier of the bay out into the open sea – the calm and placid waters all but asleep under the gaze of a myriad brilliant stars, coquetting upon the brow of every waving ripple that wits upon the advancing steps of our noble barque. 

All aboard in good health – except one lady who being announced to be unwell, the company voluntarily left the poop deck, while nearly all turned in to rest for the night, at 12 o’clock p.m.

+++

There are 3 months worth of entries in this diary...

Brett   

[BrettMaximus]

Let me translate the text inside the first few pages of Walter Wilson's bible. Attached Photo of same.. (1823-1903) He got this bible in 1852. The year he travelled to Australia. My translations and explanations are in brackets.

W.B.W (Walter Bell Wilson) born April 5th 1823

Father's name W.W (Walter Wilson) place of residence, Hawick. Mother's name

Whil Bell: (Wilhelmina Bell). Names of Brothers & Sisters -

Fergus & James (Surname Elliot and younger half brothers to Walter. They are sons of Wilhelmina Bell and Robert Elliot)

Jessie (Daughter of Walter Wilson Snr and Isabella Gray. Jessie was born in 1828 in Hawick), Isabella, Ann, Wilhimina (Isabella, Ann, Wilhimina are younger half siblings of Walter and daughters of  Wilhelmina Bell and Robert Elliot).

Sister married to G.H (This is in relation to Jessie Wilson of Hawick (half sister to Walter), who married George Hobkirk of Hawick).

Brother F to Sarah Donald (Younger half Fergus married to Sarah). Ann to James Smith Esq. residing in London (Younger half sister Ann married to James)

Wilhilmina to m James Burns, Penrith. (Younger half sister Wilhimia, to m = to marry).

A quick note on Scottish Naming Patterns. The fist son, is generally named after the father's father.
Walter Wilson (1823-1903) would have been named after his father's father (or Grandfather), as he was the first son.

The Grandfather being also a Walter Wilson (1770-1847) Cabinet Maker and head of works for the Hawick town council, as . He in turn was the father of Walter Wilson (1798-1862) also a Cabinet Maker. The family resided at 9 High Street, Hawick with a workshop out the back. The family resided at that address since circa 1755 when my 5 x great grandfather (Walter Wilson 1712-1795) first lived there.

Enjoy ;-)


Brett

[BrettMaximus]

Someone messaged me to ask if I could look at Walter Wilson's (1823-1903) marriage record to see if it states his father's occupation. Well I hadn't looked at that for years, so I checked my records and what do you know... It names Walter Wilson - Cabinet Maker as his father.

Well how about that! Please see the attachments.

Awwww

Brett