Manchester Mystery of surname link

[proteantime]

  Hi Jane,

Thanks for your input on this puzzle for me, it helps to make things so much clearer as I'm still really a novice on the systems and social heirarchies that existed in England at the time.

Interesting for me in that 1901 census (apart from the enumerator's error! lol) is the fact that the visitors are as interesting as the occupants.

"Charles A Vince visitor 45 political agent  Handsworth Staffordshire"

from www.janus.lib.cam.ac.uk

Charles Vince, Secretary of the Birmingham, Aston, and Handsworth Liberal Unionist Association

from www.docsouth.unc.edu

Struggles for Freedom; or The Life of James Watkins, Formerly a Slave in Maryland, U. S
The following is a list of the names of a few of the ministers of different denominations who have so warmly seconded my efforts in the cause of freedom:--
Baptists:--Revs. Mr. Tucker, Manchester; H. Stowell Brown, Liverpool; Charles Vince, Isaac New, Mr. Swan, J. Taylor, J. Landells, Birmingham, and D. M. Evans

So it seems that Mr Vince was an interesting liberal petitioner for the rights of the worker at the time.  Fascinating!

"Agnes G. Haddon sis in law s 52    Scotland"

this is a curiosity and if my thinking is straight on this she would have the name haddon from her husband who cannot be the brother of Isabel because then she would surely be Agnes Sinclair.

This suggests to me that she is of the age (52) to be the wife of her mother's brother and that indeed her mother's maiden name was Haddon.

I've tried to track down the marriage of Margaret to William but to no avail.

I'm intensely curious now about our Isabel's history as it seems her family were not only pioneering in the field of obstetrics and gynaecology but also had political leanings.  Curiously enough, her husband (our George E Oppenheim) although from Jewish ancestry became a Grand Mason.  The times were definitely 'a changin'.

:-) Kirsten

[GalaxyJane]

Hi Kirsten,
               This is really interesting, all the Charles Vince information you have found. I love the social history side of family history.
          On the subject of Agnes Hadden, if you look, the enumerator has added a s in the marital status column. This should mean s for single. ie Agnes was never married. Otherwise they would have written widow.
   So that would make her the elder sister of Margaret Sinclair, nee Haddon.     
  What do you think?

    Forgive me if I have got it wrong, but may I ask if English is a second language for you?
       If so perhaps I can  clarify that the term sister in law means the sister of one's wife or husband, therefore  Agnes Haddon is the sister of William Sinclair's wife, Margaret.[
 

[GalaxyJane]

Hi again,
      Here is William in 1881

RG11/3940/4/1


125 Moss Lane East, Moss Side

William J. Sinclair  head         35  unmarried     surgeon physician, Scotland
John A McKenzie   visitor       26 unmarried    assistant  physician   Scotland   
Fanny Jackson  housekeeper39 unmarried  housekeeper   Mile End Middlesex
Elizabeth Cutting servant   11  unmarried  general servant    Manchester.

   Maybe William and Margaret married in Scotland, but unfortunately I do not have  access to Scottish Records. Maybe such a marriage would have been reported in the newspapers?
                               

[northern_rose]

The marriage in Scotland should be easy to find on "Scotland's People" and will provide more info than in England with the added bonus of no waiting for a certificate!

[GalaxyJane]

You could ask for a lookup on the Scotland General board

[proteantime]

"This suggests to me that she is of the age (52) to be the wife of her mother's brother and that indeed her mother's maiden name was Haddon."

lol 

oh dear (sigh), this is what happens when I try and respond to things late at night! (I'm an hour ahead of UK time) Sorry.  What I was trying to work out was whether the visitor was Margaret Sinclair's (nee Haddon) sister in law, ie. married to Margaret's brother.

This is particularly funny and embarrassing all at once because English is my first language, the subject I read at University and the profession I engaged in for 15 years (broadcaster).  So while I'm cringing at my ineptitude under the influence of neuro-toxins, I'm also delighted that I'm still fallible and need to work on my clarity.  lol

I missed seeing an 's' for single in the column which also explains why I was heading down the 'Haddon by marriage' trail. hehe

Ok, so if I'm clear now (god everything is crossed now!), the visitor should be the unmarried sister of Margaret Sinclair (nee Haddon). Love ya Jane, thanks for your patience.

exhale..........

Thanks again Jane and Northern-rose for the suggestions about finding the Scottish marriage.  I'm no expert at Scottish genealogy and when I did the obligatory 'googling' found that I could not search without paying a fee and so put the idea in a shoebox (so to speak) to tackle when a bit less overwhelmed.

The suggestion to try the Scotland General board is ideal and I will do that next.

I'm not going to tie this lovely topic off with a 'completed' ribbon quite yet.  I'll see what I can find out on the Scotland list and come back here and let you know what I find.

Heartfelt gratitude and thanks for your time and patience.

Kirsten

[newmag]

Hi Kirston
While I was looking for some relatives I came across your conversation back in 2006. I don't know if you're still interested in the topic but I have some information about Sir Wiliam Japp Sinclair and his family which you may have by now. I have been looking for descendants of Margaret and her sister Isabel, William and Margaret's daughters. Perhaps you know something of Isabel's if she and her husband had children. Isabel was my grandfather's  first cousin.
No more for now in case I haven't done what is necessary - my first time.
Best wishes
Margaret

[proteantime]

Dear Margaret,

I'm afraid I was stuck at a wall with this one.  But will spend some time on it this evening and report back as it has been a couple of years since I last was in the zone with this line (one of just 24 I am currently researching).

Thanks for getting in touch as I am sure that between us and with the expertise and incredible intellectual resources of our rootschat family, we can solve this puzzle, once and for all.

Kindest regards,

Kirsten

[newmag]

Good to hear from you, Kirsten.

After I'd written I realised I had the report of the death of "Bell", daughter of Sir W J Sinclair. At her death her name was Osborne so I'm wondering if she was married twice or if maybe you have the wrong person. She died in Manchester in 1947. Perhaps this is why you hit a wall?
I look forward to hearing from you again.
Margaret