index of old Merthyr streets?

[anneymouse]

Thats right Nigel, grandad had no father recorded, thats why it is proving almost impossible to go back beyond him.  I have applied for his marriage certificate though, and fingers crossed it will contain the name of his father, once I get that, I can start looking for the marriage to Ellen Jane, at present she doesn't seem to exist

[NigelG]

How frustrating! Hope the marriage certificate will help! Let me know when it arrives 

[anneymouse]

Nigel, it gets worse, the my grandparents marriage certificate has just arrived, and Joseph's father is left blank (just like his birth certificate grrrr)  I am so desperate to know this man's name!  The only other chance I have is by finding the birth certificate of Joseph's brother William, who I am guessing was born between 1907 and 1917.  Do lucky breaks ever happen?!!!!!

[NigelG]

I've found Bank Street  

It was a street leading off Park Street off the Brecon Road. Curiously (on the 1901 Census) the addresses go 1-23 Park Street -> 1-4 Tabernacle Court -> Tabernacle Chapel & then starts at 6 Bank Street!

Brewery Street (where your dad grew up) is listed just before Park Street so it seems that this is the area that your family must have lived for quite some time.

Living at number 10 Bank St is an Irish family - John & Ellen Dwyer - both born Ireland - John is Limestone Quarryman. Also resident are their children Bridget 20, Timothy 18, Alice 15, John 12, Arthur 11, Agnes 9 & Willie 6. All children born Merthyr.

{I've included the details in case this rings any bells}

Now the Ellen Thomas you found in Jones Court in 1891 - are you sure this is your Ellen? Have you tracked down her birth cert to verify name of father?

The reason I ask is that Louisa Thomas may be her paternal grandmother or one of her brother's wives. So if this is the right family I can trace them back and check to see if there is a Louisa who marries into the family or if her father's mother was a Louisa.

Does that make sense  

Just editting this as you posted as I was posting!

I have a similar situation and to be honest it's nigh on impossible as there is no guarantee that his brother had the same father. If the space is blank on the marriage certificate it implies that your Grandfather didn't even know who his father was!

Your best bet is concentrating on Ellen's family - trace them back in case any more clues crop up. Keep smiling! 

[anneymouse]

I've found Bank Street  

yay! seems YOU are my lucky break!!

It was a street leading off Park Street off the Brecon Road. Curiously (on the 1901 Census) the addresses go 1-23 Park Street -> 1-4 Tabernacle Court -> Tabernacle Chapel & then starts at 6 Bank Street!

Brewery Street (where your dad grew up) is listed just before Park Street so it seems that this is the area that your family must have lived for quite some time.

Living at number 10 Bank St is an Irish family - John & Ellen Dwyer - both born Ireland - John is Limestone Quarryman. Also resident are their children Bridget 20, Timothy 18, Alice 15, John 12, Arthur 11, Agnes 9 & Willie 6. All children born Merthyr.

{I've included the details in case this rings any bells}

oh grrrr, they must have moved out, and Ellen in between 1901 and 1907 - again, why can't people stay put!!!!!

Now the Ellen Thomas you found in Jones Court in 1891 - are you sure this is your Ellen? Have you tracked down her birth cert to verify name of father?

The reason I ask is that Louisa Thomas may be her paternal grandmother or one of her brother's wives. So if this is the right family I can trace them back and check to see if there is a Louisa who marries into the family or if her father's mother was a Louisa.

Does that make sense  

It does make sense Nigel, but I have no way of verifing Ellen's father, until I get her marriage certificate, and I can't do that till I have found out Josephs dad's name  (gotta laugh!)

I have a similar situation and to be honest it's nigh on impossible as there is no guarantee that his brother had the same father. If the space is blank on the marriage certificate it implies that your Grandfather didn't even know who his father was!

I know   thing is though, my dad, his brothers and sisters all remember their 'grandad' and whilst I don't really think he was Joe's dad, he was almost certainly married to Ellen at some point, and is father to William.  Even if he wasn't Joe's biological father, he was a wonderful grandfather to Joe's kids - I am even still using his garden fork   I stare at his photo and ask him to tell me who he his!!

Your best bet is concentrating on Ellen's family - trace them back in case any more clues crop up. Keep smiling! 

But even Ellen's family seems to have reached a stalemate position.

On a lighter note, I found out my maternal great grandpa's name today

[NigelG]

Probably best to get Joseph's birth cert BUT was Joseph's surname Thomas?? Any idea when he was born?

[anneymouse]

I do have Joseph's birth cert Nigel, he took his mother's name of Thomas, no father recorded   What to do?!  If I could find anything about William, I might get someplace, but he would not be on the 1901 census (not yet born) and all I know is he died a few years back in a mental institution in Cardiff or Swansea - someone forgot to throw the needle in again!

[NigelG]

Sorry I meant his brother William's birth cert. Any idea how old he was when he died?

[anneymouse]

From what I can gather, he was in his eighties, and it wasn't too many years ago - he was actually incarcerated from the age of 14, for chopping the thumb off the bloke we are seeking!!

Trouble is, he might have a different surname to Joseph, if Ellen married, which I think she did, there was talk that she became Mrs Moore.