Anyone know where Rockcliff or Rockliffe is?

[skb]

My great grandfather, John HOLMES, moved around a bit.

In 1851 he was living in Salford Lancashire. He gave his age as 30, his occupation as Hemp Dresser journeyman and birthplace as Yorkshire Rockcliff

In 1861 he was living in Birmingham. He gave his age as 35, his occupation as Hemp Dresser and birthplace as Yorkshire Rockliffe

Can anyone suggest where Rockcliff or Rockliffe might be? I have no idea which Riding it would be in.

[brassbounder]

skb,

You're not going to like this, but...

There is apparently no Rockcliffe or Rockliffe anywhere in Yorkshire (but I stand to be corrected if someone can find one!)

There is a Rockliffe "village on the south side of Bacup, East Lancs" (from Bartholomew's Gazetteer). There are others around the country.

However, a search on MultiMap reveals that there are a Roecliffe and two Rawcliffes in Yorkshire.

How certain are you that the censuses spell it as you have written?

I have come across some very strange spellings by enumerators who were struggling with someone's accent, so this might be the explanation. And they don't always get the country right either.

Jon

[skb]

Thanks for your thoughts Jon.

The 1861 definitely says "Yorkshire Rockliffe". My 1851 information is from a transcript of the water-damaged census (the only version available to the public), and says "Yorkshire Rockcliff". So I assume that "Yorkshire" is correct. As for the Rockcliff/Rockliffe, then as you say, the enumerator will have written it as he heard it. So is it more likely to be Roecliffe or Rawcliffe with a Yorkshire accent?

Can anyone supply a fragment of information which might help?

Was the Bacup area ever part of Yorkshire?
Was there a rope making industry in a particular part of Yorkshire?
Was there any significant migration from parts of Yorkshire to Manchester or Birmingham?

[dennford]

Could there be some confusion along the way - ther is/was a Yorkshire street in bacup

[woodydog]

Hi SKB- think I might have come up with something-fingers crossed!
Have been googling like mad- first came up with a documnet at Nottingham uni refering to the Manor of Rockcliffe, Yorks dated 1797- eventually went to Genuki (why do I always forget about it?) Loftus (North Yorks in 1800's )9 miles E.N.E of Guisborough. The manor of Loftus included Hinderwell,Balby,Easington,Liverton,Guisborough,ROCKCLIFFE,Upleatham, Marske,Kirkleatham,Lazenby & Lackenby. Loftus is about 4 miles up the coast (& then a tidgey bit inland) from Staithes which used to be a busy fishing port, I think Captain Cook was born there but could be wrong!) . Boats = Rope makers...... what do you think?

All the best
Rose

[skb]

Thanks for your help everyone.

woody, I think your brilliant suggestion is definitely worth looking into. I'll see if I can find any trace of a John Holmes in North Yorkshire prior to 1851.

[Ticker]

Hi skb

I am sure that Rose (woodydog) is spot on with this one.  Whilst Loftus is in Redcar and Cleveland now for administrative purposes I would imagine many people in these parts would still describe it as North Yorkshire even today. I would!  As Rose says it certainly was in Yorkshire in the 1800s.

Best wishes

Ticker

[coffers]

I think Captain Cook was born there but could be wrong!) . Boats = Rope makers...... what do you think?

All the best
Rose

Captain Cook was born in Marton which is now a suburb of Middlesbrough, but he certainly spent some of his early working life in Staithes where he was apprenticed at a shop, before moving on to Whitby and eventually far greater things. At that time Staithes was certainly considered to be a thriving fishing town. There is more information about Captain Cook here: http://www.whitby-uk.com/cgi-bin/site.nav/whitby.pl?page=captaincook

[coffers]

I've looked on multimap around the Loftus area and there is a Rockcliffe Farm north of Easington just off the Skinningrove to Boulby Road. It's located towards the top right hand corner on the following link:

Here

I'm not sure if this would be the place referred to in the census though.