Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots

[mulberry-rose]

River Tyne Lass

Thank you so much for this, this is brilliant!  I believe the Tweddle(s) went by both variants of this name, as I have Grace’s husband George going by the Tweddell spelling a few times. Very interesting regarding the money they received. Grace would’ve had four dependant children at this point, Ellen had two yet received more money. I wonder why this was. Maybe Ellen had to provide for grandchildren aswell? At this point wouldn’t surprise me—poor Ellen looked after all of them.

I’m not sure what ‘removable thereto’ means either. Perhaps easily removable from getting relief since they were non-residents of Morpeth?

It is puzzling. I know which Annie Trainer you mean, and did lookup on her. But for the life of me can’t remember what I found. Although if Annie was a Trainer through marriage then I don’t know if she would be connected to the Barney one.  I’ll go have another look.  Trying to figure out who this Robert Conroy is aswell.

Thanks again for the board meetings info.

[mulberry-rose]

I remember this Trainer lot now.  I’ve not been able to find anything for the niece, Ann, either.

1911 Census Madison St Cowpen
John Traynor, 54, head, Scotland
Ann Traynor, 52, wife, Benton Square (4 children, 1 dec)
John James Traynor, 18, son, Choppington
Edward Traynor, 15, son, Bilton Banks
Daniel McBride Traynor, 12, son, Bedlington
Ann Traynor, 16, niece, Newbiggin by the Sea

Given Daniel was born Bedlington I saw an article in the Morpeth Herald (12 Aug 1899) which I think is the same family. John Trainer accused of being drunk at Bebside Farm. A Mrs Clark was his defendant, his daughter. Makes me wonder if one of them was married prior

Hmm..

Ann McBride & John Maddison Qtr 2 1877, Tynemouth, 10b 244 (had John, Jacob & Georgina)

John Trainer & Ann Maddison Qtr 3 1891, Tynemouth, 10b, 395.

1881 Census Cummings St, Cowpen
John Maddison, 24, head, Seaton Sluice
Ann Maddison, 22, wife, Benton Square
John Maddison, 3, son, New Delaval
Jacob Maddison, 1, son, Waterloo

Georgina Maddison married a John Clark in 1899

[River Tyne Lass]

Hi again Mulberry Rose,
By the way when I look at the wording of non resident relief paragraph, I think it sounds like they were reporting on relief paid out in retrospect.  So I think this implies not that were going to get paid said amounts but rather that was what they had been paid since the last board meeting.  I think I got a bit confused about that at first.
I have managed to pop back to the Local Studies today.  I started at the first volume 1911-12 but could see neither in the lists.  The volumes show where they first seem to appear on the lists on the dates I have already mentioned. I got up to 12 March 1914 today.  But from the dates I have mentioned previously Grace Tweddell does not appear any more up to this date.  I will search more of the minutes next time I can go.
This is what I found for Ellen reported in these dated Board Meeting
24 Oct 1912 recorded as 5s per week for 14 weeks
16 January 1913 recorded 5s per week for 14 weeks
10 April 1913 … 5s .. 14 weeks
3 July 1913 .. 5s .. 12 weeks
25 Sept 1913 .. 5s ..12 weeks
18 Dec 1913 .. 5s .. 12 weeks
12 March 1914 ..  5s .. 4 weeks
This sounds like they might have been reviewing her case more regularly, perhaps?  I wonder why Grace is absent?  Had her situation improved, or might she have gone into the workhouse, or perhaps been refused relief?
By the way there is also a Georgina Weightman mentioned in the lists from Morpeth.  I wonder if she might be known to you also, on the off chance?
You have asked if I will look out for other Rooneys  and I will certainly do so.
I have found this this baby Ellen Rooney today who was buried at Preston Cemetery.  I have added her on Find a Grave:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/277612192/ellen-rooney?createdMemorial=Yes
Entry 2982
Ellen Rooney
Age 10 months
Girl
Died at the Tynemouth Poor Law Institution
Burial 18 Nov 1921
Unconsecrated 2840 c

Mother's maiden name Rooney.  I do not know if these baby may have any relevance to our ancestors but if not, I am think this might be helpful to someone else out there.

That is brilliant re all you have found out re these Traynors/McBride/Maddison.   I think it seems like a lot to look at further in the New Year.
https://one-name.org/marriage-locator/
I see from Marriage Locator this 1877 marriage was at St Mary the Virgin, Horton – as was Peter and Ann’s ceremony.
I hope you have a wonderful Christmas. 

[mulberry-rose]

River Tyne Lass

Hope you had a nice Christmas, and best wishes for the New Year 

Thanks for the response. I think all this old terminology can get confusing at times. Interesting that they’re not there prior to 1912. I would’ve thought Ellen would receive relief before that, as her husband John Rooney died May 1911. I think it’s likely Ellen was a repeated case given that she was responsible for grandchildren as well.

Regarding Grace, I’m not sure why she didn’t receive relief afterward 1912–maybe her two eldest sons were working then.

I’ve not come across a Georgina Weightman before. 1911 shows only one in Northumberland living at Hirst, husband Ralph missing. Ralph was done for embezzlement in 1906, probably the reason she was seeking relief.

I added some details to baby Ellen Rooney’s memorial. Unfortunately she’s not connected to mine, but seems to be the daughter of a Jane Rooney from Walker.

Also, regarding the Traynor/Trainer lot, I don’t think they were connected to Barney Trainer from Spennymoor, just a coincidence that Ann married one. John Traynor/Trainer was the son of Frank Trainer and Jane Farrel/Tarrel of Kirkcudbright.

[River Tyne Lass]

Hi Mulberry Rose,
I hope you have had a good Christmas and Happy New Year, too.
I have been able to move on to the next volume at the North Shields Local Studies, this week. – 1914-1915.  No mention of Grace in this volume but Ellen continues in the lists of outdoor relief.  This workhouse kept meticulous financial accounts and these seemed to have been presented at the Board of Guardians meetings.  The dates continue showing at the dated meetings.  Interesting that Ellen’s relief allowance decreases for a time.
Here are the entries for Ellen Rooney from Morpeth showing what she had received:

4 June 1914 – 2’ 6d per week for 12 weeks
27 Aug 1914 – 2’ 6d  " for 12 weeks
19 Nov 1914 – 5s " for 4 weeks
14 January 1915 - "  5s for 4 weeks
11 Feb 1915 – 5s " for 12 weeks

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/249868175/james-gilroy
By the way, I have updated the Find A Grave memorial I have up for James Gilroy at All Saints Churchyard in Newcastle to show what was recorded in his newspaper death notice and inquest account.
You will notice in the death notice he is recorded as James and in the inquest report he is John Gilroy.  It seems that he had got up one morning and gone into a pub at 8 o’clock.  I presume they were referring to the morning rather than the evening.  Were pubs open at that time in the morning, I wonder if he had gone in not to drink but perhaps because of his work?  I am wondering if there may be a small possibility that he may have gone in because of work.  Could he have been working in the distillery trade at this point?  I am still mulling on the idea that he may have been Peter Conroy’s Father going under the name of John, perhaps?  The only thing is this James who died at Pandon Bank (who I think may possibly have been our mutual blood line ancestor James Conroy) shows his age a bit out.   I suppose though they weren't always accurate with ages back in the day.

Thanks for your thoughts re the Trainers/Traynors.  My head is spinning regarding that lot just now.  But definitely something to look further into at some point in the future I think, to see how everything could fit.

I have added a few more Rooneys to Preston Cemetery - again, don't worry if these are not connected to you - they may well be useful to someone out there.  These latest additions have included Margaret Frances Rooney 1907; Annie Rooney 1910 and Francis Rooney 1912.

I hope to check the Relief lists again at the Local Studies when I can next go,  I will keep you posted re what is found.

[mulberry-rose]

Hi River Tyne Lass,

Happy new year 

I really appreciate you getting all these details about the relief for me. Definitely an interesting time period that Ellen’s amount decreased. Margaret Rooney didn’t tie till 16th March 1914, so maybe that’s why the March order is the same. After she died her children (Ellen & James) would’ve gone into Ellen’s care. I was told Patrick Green gave some money to Ellen, so perhaps this is evidence of that. If he supported her for a little while, then the relief received would be less? Guess we’ll never know for sure.

I have been wondering about this James Gilroy, especially about the info about him lodging at Pandon Street. Given he was in Gateshead in 1837, clearly shows he was away from family (for work?) at times. I wonder if we can’t find a death for him because he was away, may have died in that county instead of Northumberland?

On another note, I recently purchased the GRO record for Mary Drummond. It says she was born 25 Aug 1854 at Dogger Bank—off Newgate Street in Morpeth. The Conroy’s are at Newgate St in 1851 census, so it seems they stayed close for a few years.

Interestingly, the informant was a “William Fallon, occupier Dogger Bank” who in the 1851 census lived at Waterloo (Matfen).

Thank you for the info about the memorials, not familiar to me but I have seen them whilst researching.   

[River Tyne Lass]

Hi Mulberry Rose,
That is interesting about Mary Drummond.   As I recall in her baptism entry at St Francis Xavier RC Church ‘Waterloo’ is mentioned.  I wonder who William Fallon was and  why it was he and not either of her parents who were the informants?  I will have to look it up again but I think I recall our mutual ancestor Mary Conroy living with some Fallons in 1861?
My 2 x Great Grandparents James and Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick were living at Waterloo Cottages, in 1855 when they were implicated in the ‘Matfen Murder’ of their landlady Dorothy Bewick.  They were acquitted in 1856.  Their son, my Great Grandfather Simon Peter was born in Newgate Street on 4 June 1851.
I remember seeing a newspaper article a good while back re a James Conroy.  It was quite early around 1841 I think.  The report was about a fight he had got into.  This person was apparently working on the sea wall I think I recall at Warkworth.  I think there is a possibility this may have been our James - I get the impression he got around and was a very hard worker.
I have obtained some more updates re Ellen in the relief lists shown in volumes held at North Shields local studies.
In the 1915/16 volume it is shown that Ellen had received:
6 May 1915 5s for 12 weeks

Then on 1 July 1915 is this paragraph below. 
‘Departures from Outdoor Relief Regulations
Resolved: That sanction be given to the undermentioned departures from Outdoor Relief Regulations in force in this Union in the following cases, viz:-
… Ellen Rooney, 51 – 1 child dependent’

So this looks like she was only claiming for 1 child?
This is also a bit puzzling as it looks like relief was discontinued but  relief recordings continue:
29 July 1915 5s for 12 weeks
21 Oct 1915 5s for 12 weeks
6 April 1916 5s for 12 weeks
29 June 1916 2’6d for 12 weeks
21 Sept 1916 Ellen does not appear in the list
31 March 1917 Ellen does not appear in the list.
I wonder if Ellen was getting less in June because of the warmer weather and perhaps they felt she did not need extra money for coal? 
I will search more volumes the next time I get time again to go to the Local Studies.

[River Tyne Lass]

A further update Mulberry Rose.
I have now looked through the Minutes in volumes:
1917-18
1918-19
1919-20
1920-21
However, I can't see Ellen anymore in the Outdoor Relief lists.  Obviously, something must have changed during these years.  I wonder if her circumstances improved or might she have had to enter the workhouse an inmate?
I will look through more volumes up to her death when I get time.

[mulberry-rose]

River Tyne Lass

I do wonder how these Fallons fit in, especially since they also seem to be from Ireland. 1861 Fallons living with our Mary Conroy are the same ones living at Waterloo in 1851.

William Fallower, 90, b Ireland, formerly gardener
Catherine Fallower, 86, b Ireland, wife
Catherine Bond, 28, b Ireland, daughter, husband soldier
Thomas Bond, 6, b Morpeth, grandson
Mary Conroy, 62 bIreland, cotton hawker, boarder
Joseph Conroy, 19, b Morpeth, railway labourer, boarder
Edward Conroy, 17, b Morpeth, coal miner, boarder

I’ve seen that article about James Conroy and Warkworth harbour, and do think it’s him too. Speaking of him, I wonder if his name was registered wrong…

I had a recent experience with GRO when trying to find the birth of Ellen Rooney, (a sister to my greatx2 grandmother Margaret) but could not find it. Turns out she was registered as “Jane Rowley” MMN  Conroy! Complete left field.

I very much appreciate the outdoor relief info.  Not sure if Ellen went into the workhouse an inmate, as she seems to have stayed in the same address consistently from 1914-1928(death). I wonder since both her youngest sons were in work by 1918, this would’ve meant she didn’t need to take relief as much.

On another note, I came across this baffling note in a criminal register regarding Joseph Conroy (my greatx4 grandfather). He was alleged to have stolen a bible in 1870/1(?), and I do believe it’s him as the age matches. However it makes reference to him in past offences as “No 12 James Conroy, Sep 26 1866, Criminal Justice Act 14 days”  Could just be a mistake, but confusing nonetheless.