Author Topic: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots  (Read 34503 times)

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots
« Reply #45 on: Tuesday 25 June 19 09:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Jack,

What information do you have for Ann Conroy after the date of the marriage, the details of which I have provided in the earlier post?

I would be very interested to know of any further children she and Adam had apart from Mary.  Also do you know where she is in the census following on from marriage and when, where she died?

I would greatly appreciate hearing if you know more than I already know.  It doesn't matter if you might not know anymore - it is just in post 8 you mentioned that you thought you had the names of their children.
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline Jack gray

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Re: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday 26 June 19 12:29 BST (UK) »
I thought I did, but sadly it was for another one of the Adams. Adam and Ann Conroy just seem to disappear for some reason.

Offline mulberry-rose

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Re: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots
« Reply #47 on: Sunday 07 July 24 12:07 BST (UK) »
Given that this thread is from 2019 I don’t know if this info has been considered but I came across this 1861 census.

The family are residing in a lodging house at 152 Gilesgate, St Giles Durham.

Adam Allen, 25, (1836) born Earsdon Northumberland. Occupation Cooper.

Ann Allen, 27 (1834) born Chatton Northumberland. Lodgers wife.

Mary Allen, 7 (1854) born Morpeth Northumberland. Lodgers dau.

There’s also some Millers in this house, don’t know if they’re of interest:

William Miller, 25 (1836) born St Nicholas, Durham. Occupation blacksmith.

Elizabeth Miller, 20 (1841) born Newcastle Upon Tyne. Lodgers wife.
Allan, Bell, Bolam, Bollum, Burrell, Campbell, Colthard, Conroy, Harrison, Howey, Keeney , Keough, Kirkup, Muldoon, Rooney, Storey, Valentine, Weatherson, Weatherstone (Nthland)
Ford, Aynsley, Lewis, Brown, Myers (Durham)
Green, Dillon, Drain, Cox, Muldoon (Lanark)

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots
« Reply #48 on: Sunday 07 July 24 13:33 BST (UK) »
Wow!  Thank you very much!  This has made my day, off as I am with covid.  I do think this sounds like them.  I think I would never have spotted this without your help.  Although why they are masquerading as 'Allen' I just don't know.  I think it all adds up though and this is really Adam and Ann Drummond nee Conroy.  I wonder if they kept going under those false names? 

Ann's brother Joseph Conroy married a Mary Allen at St Alban, Earsdon under the name of Gilroy.  The newspapers reported my ancestor James Conroy also went under the alias of Gilroy.  He was charged with a crime in 1855 and tried along with a family going under the names of Anderson/Allen in March 1856.  The Conroys had links with Millers too.  Thomas Conroy son of my ancestor James and brother of my Great Grandfather Simon, married an Isabella Miller who was daughter of Jacob and Jane Miller nee Anderson.  These latter two have a memorial gravestone at St Alban, Eardon.

By the way, I believe their daughter Mary 'Allen' you mention in 1861 census is living with a Peter & Ann Conroy in 1871 in Bedlington as their 'niece' back under the name of Mary Drummond.
I have no doubt that above was Ann nee Miller.  Their marriage entry records she was daughter of Jacob Miller and Peter's Father was down as John Conroy a distiller.  I have never worked out the connection with Peter but I suspect there is one with my Conroy ancestors.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/272075131/margaret-ann-conroy

As a slight aside, might you know who this person might be - Margaret Conroy - that I have recently added to Find A Grave?  This was of interest when I came across her as I think this was also the address of an Elizabeth Gilboy/Rose/Taylor nee Conroy who was the daughter of Edward Conroy who was the brother of my 2 x Great Grandfather James.  However, I believe her sister Margaret married a McCarthy as I recall so wonder who this spinster Margaret might be?  I believe this was also the later address for Elizabeth's son Edward Gilboy.  The latter is buried at Preston Cemetery, North Shields.

Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner


Offline mulberry-rose

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Re: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots
« Reply #49 on: Sunday 07 July 24 15:21 BST (UK) »
Glad to have helped! I hope you feel better soon :)

I don’t know why they changed their surnames either, this family certainly made a habit of it. Adam & Ann don’t seem to have anymore children under that alias, and I can’t find any matching death records. But then again I still haven’t checked marriages.

Strangely enough Joseph Conroy (my great x3 grandfather through his eldest dau Ellen Rooney) doesn’t seem to have gone by an alias after his marriage to Mary Ann. All his children & censuses were registered under Conroy, which has made them easier to trace. Mary Ann Allen‘s grandfather was also a hawker; John Allen from Longframlington.

Regarding Margaret Conroy, I don’t directly know who she is but I think I do remember one somewhere. I’ll have a look.

Edit: Adam might’ve had the alias Allan as it seems his mother maiden name was that (too many Allan’s!  ::))

Adam Drummond bap 3 Oct 1836 Earsdon, son of Andrew Drummond basket maker and Mary

Then on familysearch is his sisters baptism:

Eve Drummond bap 2 Feb 1839 Earsdon, dau of Andrew Drummond and Mary Allen

DRUMMOND FEMALE
Tynemouth Dec 1838
25 377

1861 Census, Whitley, Tynemouth

Andrew Drummond, 51, born Scotland or Northumberland, cooper

Mary Drummond, 57, hawker

Robert Drummond, son, 30, carter, unm

Andrew Drummond, son, 21, general labourer, married

Ann Drummond, dau in law, 19, married

Ann Drummond, dau, 15

Jane Drummond, dau, 11

DRUMMOND, ANN       ALLEN 
GRO Reference: 1845  S Quarter in ROTHBURY UNION  Volume 25  Page 377

DRUMMOND, JANE       ALLAN 
GRO Reference: 1850  J Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION  Volume 25  Page 505

DRUMMOND, THOMAS       ALLAN 
GRO Reference: 1844  M Quarter in BERWICK UPON TWEED UNION  Volume 25  Page 28 (??)
Allan, Bell, Bolam, Bollum, Burrell, Campbell, Colthard, Conroy, Harrison, Howey, Keeney , Keough, Kirkup, Muldoon, Rooney, Storey, Valentine, Weatherson, Weatherstone (Nthland)
Ford, Aynsley, Lewis, Brown, Myers (Durham)
Green, Dillon, Drain, Cox, Muldoon (Lanark)

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots
« Reply #50 on: Sunday 07 July 24 21:08 BST (UK) »
I am very grateful that you found them via their aliases in 1861.  I feel that is a great help and may help find them in future.  I hadn't thought of looking for Ann under the name of Allen.  As I say, your find made my day today. :D
When I think of it in 1861 they weren't actually married yet, so at that point they were still really Drummond and Conroy with their then illegitimate daughter, Mary.  Although, I suppose Allen could be considered as his name also, as you have found this to have also been his Mother's maiden name.  So perhaps not a total deception?
I think our ancestors are a tricky lot to figure out at times because of aliases and using the same names in families over and again. One thing I have found is that they tended to follow each other about.

Incidentally, have you had your dna done?  I have and have matched with some descendants of your Joseph's side.  I believe our joint ancestors are James Conroy and Mary Molloy.

By the way, I made a mistake linking the Margaret Ann Conroy address in burial entry - 7 Front Street with Elizabeth Gilboy/Rose/Taylor nee Conroy and son Edward Gilboy.  Their address I was thinking of was 37 Front Street, Chirton.
I still think Margaret could be relevant somewhere.  I hope one of these days to get back to the archives, - don't know when that might be possible but when I do I might look for her workhouse entrance to see if there was any info about a next of kin.
Thank you for your help today, this has felt like a gift,  :-* more so especially as I am stuck indoors with covid.
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline mulberry-rose

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Re: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots
« Reply #51 on: Sunday 07 July 24 22:14 BST (UK) »
I’ve tried locating them anywhere else but unfortunately can’t find them yet. Maybe they’re not ready to be found. Adam’s father Andrew seems to be missing from the 1871 census (mother Mary died 1869?) so I don’t know if that could indicate Adam & Ann were living with them too? If they are all missing.

They do always seem to be linked about! Which is great but also confusing when there’s a connection but no indication how  ::)

Do you know what became of Mary Drummond? Did she marry? Or disappear like her parents  ;D

Unfortunately I haven’t gotten round to DNA, but something I’m considering in the future. Would be a mighty help.

The closest Margaret Ann Conroy to the one on FindAGrave I could find was born in 1875 in Newcastle MMN Loughlan. Her father named Michael. Not 100% sure thought as she disappears after 1901. Although there are no marriage records 1901-11 to indicate she married (which FindAGrave Margaret didn’t do).
Allan, Bell, Bolam, Bollum, Burrell, Campbell, Colthard, Conroy, Harrison, Howey, Keeney , Keough, Kirkup, Muldoon, Rooney, Storey, Valentine, Weatherson, Weatherstone (Nthland)
Ford, Aynsley, Lewis, Brown, Myers (Durham)
Green, Dillon, Drain, Cox, Muldoon (Lanark)

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots
« Reply #52 on: Monday 08 July 24 07:59 BST (UK) »
I'm afraid I haven't been able to find Mary Drummond as yet after she appears as the niece of Peter and Ann Conroy (formerly McBride/MacBride nee Miller) in Bedlington.

I have wondered if Peter was a brother of your Joseph and my James but the marriage entry giving his Father as John Conroy throws a bit of a spanner on that line of thought.  I know Peter and Ann's daughter Bridget became a Bridget Gilboy and a person of this name Bridget Gilboy appears as a Godparent on a baptism entry for one of your Joseph's children or Grandchildren as I recall.  I can't remember exactly who off the top of my head.
It can be a job and a half trying to link them all up but it's fun. :D 
I'll let you know if I come across any more leads and hopefully you will let me know if you find out any more too.

Added re the baptism it was your Ellen Rooney's niece, daughter of brother Edward:

Margaret Theresa Conroy born 16 January 1900 bapt at St Robert Morpeth 28 March.  Her sponsors were James Conroy and Bridget Gilboy.
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline mulberry-rose

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Re: Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots
« Reply #53 on: Monday 08 July 24 14:10 BST (UK) »
I’d thought perhaps Peter Conroy was a brother too, but him being allegedly born in Ireland (censuses) whilst the rest were in Northumberland threw me off a bit. Then again censuses are never 100% accurate.

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this before but I just stumbled across this as a possibility for Margaret Conroy. Since I recall up in the thread that Margaret couldn’t be traced.

Name   Margaret Conroy or Young
Occupation   -
Residence   Tramp
Year Jailed   1874
Age   36
Estimated Birth Year   1838
Birthplace   Morpeth
Sex   F
Prison   Dumfries
County   Dumfriesshire
NRS Reference   HH21/49/4 p. 84

https://www.scottishindexes.com/prisontranscript.aspx?prisonid=490408425

Don’t know if the article below is why she was jailed (wouldn’t make sense given it was her husband who attacked her) but definitely the same person.

Margaret Conroy & John Young
Married 18 Sep 1871
Peebles, Peeblesshire
Allan, Bell, Bolam, Bollum, Burrell, Campbell, Colthard, Conroy, Harrison, Howey, Keeney , Keough, Kirkup, Muldoon, Rooney, Storey, Valentine, Weatherson, Weatherstone (Nthland)
Ford, Aynsley, Lewis, Brown, Myers (Durham)
Green, Dillon, Drain, Cox, Muldoon (Lanark)