Baptisms Stroud/Rodborough area

[slewi4]

Sorry to drag you back to a conversation that you thought was over, but I'm trying to sort-out an inconsistency of coverage between different versions of what should be the same data.

I have re-checked (family history online) for the Harriet WALTERS entry in Northamptonshire in the 1851 Census and found her again (except that I was mistaken about Blatherwycke - it was actually Kings Cliffe). FHO doesn't have a 'others in the household' facility so I asked on the Northamptonshire list, and the reply that I got was that she wasn't there. Arranroots was unable to find her either when I first mentioned it in this thread - It would help me to know what source you used to search (i.e. Ancestry, CDs etc.)

FHO didn't give the GRO reference, just the location of Kings Cliffe, in the hundred of Willybrook, 19yrs, born Stonewater, page 12a.

I also tried to get the 1861 Census image of the Red Lion in Burnham Buckinghamshire from 1837online, but got the "returned zero matches" message for both the name and location searches. 

It seems that I have niavely assumed that if it has all come from the same original source, each version should contain the same data - excepting transcription errors.

Sandra

[Arranroots]

Well this should help a bit

RG9/854/23/13

Joseph WALTER H M 52 - beer retailer & hair dresser - Bucks High Wycombe
Harriet W M 55 - Gloucestershire Stroud
Mary A COX gd dau 10 - scholar - Bucks Burnham

Address: Red Lion, Burnham, Buckinghamshire

kind regards, Arranroots 

[Keziahemm]

Hi Sandra and A 

Found her!  Transcribed as Walton born Horsmonden 

Charles Naylor  Head  Mar  67  Butcher  Rutland Ketton
Sarah Naylor  Wife  Mar  61  -   Northants. Cliffe
Harriett Walters  Visitor  U  19  -  Stonewater ?
Ruth Andrews  Visitor  4?  -  Northants. Cliffe

Kings Cliffe
HO107/1746  folio 347  page 12

Not sure about the age of Ruth Andrews could be 4 or 1 + another number 


Susan 

[Arranroots]

Tremendous Susan!!

 

[slewi4]

Thank you both very much 
Walton I can understand (and may have eventually considered), but Horsmoden! I'd never have guessed.
This has been a valuable lesson for me. It IS all the same data and the different transcribers each interpret what they read, or sometimes have to guess. If it can't be found from one source, I'll try another, hoping that their interpretation/guess may be closer.
I'm happy again now and will look further into the Bucks lot.
Thanks 
Sandra

[Blairb]

Dear Sandra
How have you been faring in tracing the details about our shared ancestors Joseph Walters and Harriet Wickham?
I am a great grandson of Joseph's and Harriet's son Joseph Walters.
Over the years I have had difficulty obtaining credible info about Joseph and Harriet.
These puzzlers remain.
1. Why no recorded issue for 6 years after the notification of banns/wedding of Joseph and Harriet?
2.Why no 1851 Census data for Joseph snr and Harriet snr and no 1851 census data for Joseph jnr? and
3. Why no recorded birth/christening info for your Harriet jnr?
Regards
Blair

[slewi4]

Hi Blair,
Not much further progress, I'm afraid. Its like I've got a jigsaw puzzle with no picture on the box, some of the pieces are missing, and some pieces that may not belong in the box.

The 1861 couple at Burnham seem a good fit (right names (except for the absent s in the surname), right occupation, and one born in Stroud), but if the ages are correct, Joseph would have been 16 when they married. I'll assume they said that they were younger than they actually were. Then there is the granddaughter Mary A COX (Mary Ann) -  there is only one birth and corresponding christening that matches the name, age and place, but her mother was Mary COX (no father listed).

Have you noticed that the children's ages in the 1841 Census don't quite match the birth dates from their christenings. I think that the Vicar made a couple of errors made in recording the names and birthdates in the register - Harriet's name has been missed out, and Eliza has been given Harriet's birthdate (the 1841 Census shows that Eliza and Thomas were twins). Maria was christened in 1836, yet the 1841 Census suggests that she was not born until 1838 - could be that the first Maria died, and the next baby girl was named after her. I wonder if the threat of an epidemic, or an illness already apparent in Maria was what prompted the christenings of all of the children.

In answer to your questions:
1. I don't know, it was unusual for the time - maybe a few miscarriages/ infant deaths?
2. They may have been in some of the missing parishes or there might yet be entries, just mistranscribed. The problem is that they didn't stay in one place, so we don't know where to look
3. I think that I've solved (without proof) that one.
At least we do have some confirmation of facts.

A few snippets that I have found that may turn out to be relevant: In Pigot & Co's Directory of Berks, Bucks, Cornwall, Devon, Dorset & Glos 1844, there is an entry in Bristol Gloucestershire under Taverns & Public Houses for the Blue Bowl, run by Henry Walters, Temple back; and also one for a Retailer of Beer, Thomas Walters, at Hotwell Rd Bristol. I can't help wondering if there is a connection there. It might be coincidence, but here was a marriage in High Wycombe Bucks of a Henry Christoph Walter in 1805.

Regards
Sandra

[Blairb]

Dear Sandra
Thanks for the update.
Joseph and Harriet still have a bit of mystery about them. I still think he was born in Gloucestershire about 1808 and his parents were Thomas Walters and Martha Mayo.
All I know is that Joseph Snr was involved in the hospitality industry and I think was responsible for horses (buying, stabling etc) at the various inns he was associated with.
 I have the following information;
On son's Marriage Certificate, occupation recorded as a farrier.
On daughter's marriage certificate, occupation ostler.
On son's birth certificate his occupation is given as an innkeeper and horsedealer.
On daughter's death certificate, occupation given as horsedealer.
My great grandfather, Joseph Jnr had a dairyfarm in Gladstone and also was involved with horse raising and dealing. He owned a lot of property in Gladstone where he raised and kept horses and died a wealthy man.
I suspect he also ran a lodging house in addition to the dairy farm.
Yes Joseph Snr was at one stage in Bristol as confirmed by the 1841 Census and ironically on Joseph Jnr's death certificate it is incorrectly recorded that he ( Joseph Jnr) was born in Bristol! His occupation in 1841 is recorded as a coachman which again suggests he was responsible for  buying and maintaining the coach horses who were stabled at the various inns and hotels.
My grandfather Joseph Wallace Hamilton Walters was a stockman and horse and cattle buyer so there is little doubt that the Walters have long been involved with livestock!
Regards
Blair

[fred1951]

Hi,

This looks like the same family as Arranroots found but this time they are down as Walker.

1851 - High Street, Burnham, buckinhamshire

Joseph Walker 42 b Wycombe, Buckinghamshire 1809, Beer House Keeper & Hair Dresser
Harriet Walker 43 b Stroud Gloucestershire 1808
Joseph Walker 21 b Wycombe, Buckinghamshire  1830, Carpenter (journey Man) 
Thomas Walker 19 b Burnham, Buckinghamshire   1832, Ap to Machine Maker (i think)
Ann Walker 16  b  Burnham, Buckinghamshire         1835

 John Jones 32        Lodger
  William Mitchell 27 Lodger
  William Robinson 25  Lodger


HO107/ 1718,  634, 39

Julia