Todds of Limavady

[rmcmurtry]

curious about the Kinkead connection.   We assume that the family of Andrew Todd of Shane's castle who came from Coleraine are close kin to the Todds of Dunluce who rented from the family of Andrew Todd.  The DNA of this group does not match the Todds of Toneduff.

Have you ever found a death certificate for Isabella Kinkead Todd?

Richard

[pkincaid]

There was also an Andrew Todd in the Ballykelly area.  The Court Minute Books for the Fishmongers Estate records that on 28 October 1829 a weekly pension of 1 shilling 6 pence was granted to Andrew Todd (p. 121 of vol. 14).  I am not sure who he was.

In case you did not have this, there were 30 families in the 1831 census of Toneduff giving a total of 170 inhabitants of which 18 were servants.  The heads of households were Samuel McCoomb, James Riddles, John Riddles, David Riddles, Robert Riddles, John McGlinchy, Thomas Brown, Elizabeth Kincade, James Laughlin, James Nixon, Robert Miller, James McLaughlin, John Deens, John Hamilton, Andrew Nixon, Thomas Nixon, Thomas Mitchell, Mary Mitchell, Rev. James Allison, William Gardner senior, Thomas Todd, James McTeely, Charles McCarter, William Gardner junior, William Hamilton, Christy Ruth, Adam Todd, Oliver Scott, James Molloy, and Thomas Ruth.

[rmcmurtry]

Hi ,

Ballykelly (where Andrew Todd appeared in 1829) looks like it lies about 2 miles west of Limavady and Ballydarrog where Todds lived in the 1740s lay about 2 miles SW of LImavady and about two miles from Ballykelly.  Daisy Hill where John Todd appears in the 1831 census lies about 1.5 miles east of Ballydarrog (about 4 miles from Ballykelly).  So it is conceivable that all these Todds were related.   

Richard

[pkincaid]

curious about the Kinkead connection.   We assume that the family of Andrew Todd of Shane's castle who came from Coleraine are close kin to the Todds of Dunluce who rented from the family of Andrew Todd.  The DNA of this group does not match the Todds of Toneduff.

Have you ever found a death certificate for Isabella Kinkead Todd?

Richard

Isabella Todd died between 1861 and 1871.  We have not located a death record for her.  We are looking for more information in land and probate records.  It is not certain that she is a Kinkead - she is suspected to be a sister of William Kinkead of Adelaide township, Middlesex County, Ontario.

I get the impression that Andrew Todd of Shane's Castle was the son of Daniel and Susanna Todd of Coleraine.  There is a link between Andrew Todd of Shane's Castle to Dunluce in PRONI, D2738/2/2.  I don't think Andrew Todd held Shane's Castle.  It seems he was simply holding it in the absence of Charles O'Neil [See Belfast Newsletter & Advertiser 26 March 1761].  Andrew Todd, merchant of Coleraine gets a lease of lands in the barony of Dunluce on 1 June 1750 [PRONI, D2977/3A/1/4/6] which were the same lands leased to Susanna Todd, widow of Coleraine, circa 1740 [PRONI, D2977/3A/3/1/89].

 

[rmcmurtry]

1.  Daniel Todd d 1737 Coleraine, Londonderry

The Daniel Todd d 1737 family is interesting because:
a.  This family was part of the second tier of Irish landed aristocracy.    They were merchants who had acquired long term land leases from the Earl of Antrim and sold those leases while collecting rents from them.
b.   Elizabeth Todd, dau of Daniel, married into the Patterson family of Donegal and eventually her brother’s descendants came into possession of Buncrana Castle of Co Donegal.
c.   Andrew Todd b abt 1720, son of Daniel d 1737, came to be a key  business agent for the Earl of Antrim.   Andrew’s protégé, John Todd b 1766, a great grandson of Daniel d 1737, took over this role sometime after his great-uncles demise.   This John died at the age of 37 at Harrogate where he had gone to dip in the famous spas there in the hopes of recovering his health.
d.   Daniel’s grandson Isaac Todd 1742-1819 became wealthy through his involvement in the fur trade in Canada.   Isaac sent his nephew Andrew Todd to New Orleans to try to break into the fur trade of the upper Missouri and Missisippi Rivers, but Andrew contracted yellow fever and died there a young man in 1796.
e.   Andrew Todd d 1787 leased land to the Todd families in Ballywillin of Londonderry and Antrim and in Dunluce of Antrim.  These Todd families were probably some kin to Daniel Todd d 1737.   These Todds also were genetically related to the family of Andrew Todd b 1740s d1795, the surgeon of Co Sligo, to the family of Todds who settled in Co Down in the 1600s, to the Todds of Castlederg Co Tyrone.  These Todds were also genetically related to the Todds of Dreghorn Ayrshire, suggesting a possible Ayrshire origin for all these families.

Daniel’s immediate family lived in Coleraine and Killowen, but his son Andrew moved to Shane’s Castle near Randalstown in the 1760s to be agent to the Earl of Antrim and his daughter Elizabeth moved to Donegal where her husband’s family William Patterson lived.   His son Isaac remained in the Coleraine area (Killowen) and suffered financial losses requiring his sale of some of his property, but Isaac’s son Daniel may have moved also to Randalstown after 1768 and it may be his son John who became agent of the Earl of Antrim after Andrew Todd’s death in 1787.

[kingskerswell]

Richard,
            The location of the estate, once known as Daisy Hill, lies about 2 miles NNE of Ballydarrog and immediately to the west of Limavady. It is bounded in the north by the old road from Limavady to Londonderry, in the east by the River Roe, in the south by the minor road leading from what is now Drumrane Road to the ford at Roe mill and in the west by Drumrane and Baranailt roads.
           The estate was originally known as Mullagh and when it was bought by Marcus McCausland in 1743 the name was changed to Daisy Hill. It was later bought by John Cromie of Portstewart in 1817 and called Roe Park, the name it retained.

Regards

[pkincaid]

At long last, the results from the DNA sample from a descendant of John Todd and Jane Purdey md 1855 Coleraine have come in.

It shows that this family is a unique family of Todds without close kin in Ireland.   Their origins in Scotland are not known, but the few samples we have from Scotland do not match.

The sample was 3 markers out of 25 different from the Todds of Central Antrim(Ballyalbanagh) but usually 3 marker difference out of 25 is enough to indicate no relationship in modern history.   There is a slight chance that the family IS related to the Todds of Central Antrim, but someone would have to find a second person from this family to test the DNA.

Richard

Be careful with DNA interpretations.  I've been following this technology since the beginning in terms of its use for genealogical purposes.  A 25 marker test is quite useless.  You need at least 37 markers to get a sense of how the family fits within the surname and 67 markers to pin down.  My father was 3 mutations away from his 2nd cousin on 25 markers, and 1 mutation away from his 1st cousin on 25 markers (2 on 37 markers).  It was only by working the family tree (2nd cousins and 3rd cousins) that the mutations were isolated to prove the DNA relationships.  Three mutations in a 25 marker test does not disprove distant connections for lines going back to the 1700s.  One needs to bump these up to 67 markers and compare it against other Todds in the same cluster.

[rmcmurtry]

HI,

The DNA sample from Douglas Todd of Ontario, desc of Samuel Todd 1847-1890 (son of James b abt 1820) of Gortanaran, Cumber Lower, Co Londonderry was an exact 25 marker match with the same from George Couts Todd of New Zealand, desc of John Todd born Toneduff (son of John Todd and Isabella Mowbray).  The latest possible common ancestor for these two would have been an unknown Todd b about 1780.

Of the 120 Todd dna samples I have accumulated over the past 8 years, I have never found a 3 mutation out of 25 being a close kin which only means that this is rare not that it never happens.   My own personal DNA test shows 2 mutations in 2 generations which is something I have never seen in other samples.

I have seen people with 2 mutations of 25 been proved to be close kin through additional upgrades to more markers and I have seen people with 2 mutations out of 25 been proved to increase their genetic distance with increased markers - meaning they are not close kin.   

So I agree with the value of additional markers but disagre e about how often we would expect a 3 mutation out of 25 to be close kin.

Richard

[rmcmurtry]

HI,

Based on the excellent information you provided, I made a small map of the Ballykelly, Ballydarrog, Daisy Hill area.  It looks like Ballykelley is 3 miles from Ballydarrog and Daisy Hill and as you say, that Daisy Hill is only 2.2 miles to Ballydarrog.  These are all very close to each other and perhaps these Todds are all kin to each other, though we have insufficient information to show this to be anything more than a reasonable conjecture.

Thanks for the details.!

Richard