Author Topic: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6  (Read 12478 times)

Offline Potter

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Re: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6
« Reply #9 on: Monday 17 August 09 21:10 BST (UK) »
I cannot find a divorce or another marriage for either of my Great Grandparents.

I cannot find any of them on the 1901 Census in the name of Hutchins or Leighton

I cannot find Frederick James Hutchins on the 1911 Census

I found Gertie & Children on the 1911...
1911 England & Wales Census
LEIGHTON, FRANCES GERTRUDE HEAD MARRIED F 42 PRIVATE MEANS YEAIRK SOMERSET
LEIGHTON, THOMAS FREDK PTDANNY SON SINGLE M 16 MINERAL WATER TRAVELLER WINCHESTER HANTS
LEIGHTON, GERTRUDE MAY EUGINE DAUGHTER SINGLE F 15 BRIDFAST DORSET
WARDEN, MAY BOARDER SINGLE F 18 ACRESS LEEDS YORKSHIRE
JENNER, CHARLES VISITOR SINGLE M 42 ACTOR CERNE ABBAS DORSET SHEFFORD,
FREDERICK WILLIAM VISITOR MARRIED M 44 ASSISTANT CLERK TO JUSTICE WINCANTON SOMERSET
RG14PN10136 RG78PN533A RD195 SD2 ED24 SN90)
Address: 1 CHANCELLOR RD SOUTHEND ON SEA
County Essex
District Rochford
Subdistrict Prittlewell
Enumeration District 24
Parish Southend

Here's Fred Leighton, if I have the right man, on the 1911 Census
1911 Census Household Transcript
GORTON, EMILY - HEAD MARRIED F 33, PUBLIC CATERER, born MIDDLETON LANCASHIRE
LEIGHTON, FRED BOARDER MARRIED M 37 MUSIC HALL MANAGER WELFORD IRELAND RESIDENT
LEIGHTON FRED (RG14PN9850 RG78PN521A RD191 SD2 ED1 SN200)
Address 25 ILFORD HUT ILFORD
County Essex
District Romford
Subdistrict Ilford
Enumeration District 1
Parish Ilford

... seems Fred Leighton is living with a married woman... but this does not tie up with him being on May and Tom`s marriage certificates in 1916!
The Census states that he has been married for 18 years with two children, but that he was born in Welford, Ireland and is 37.

This great confusion over the surname change of HUTCHINS to LEIGHTON is still not resolved... at first I thought Fred HUTCHINS & Fred LEIGHTON were the same man... then I thought there were two men and my Great Grandmother 'Gertie' must have changed their names when she lived as wife with Fred Leighton... but now this is what another family member thinks...
This 1911 Census is very significant with an actress and actor living with Tom, May and Gertie.
As to Fred Leighton being born in Ireland, well that may all have been one big lie to go alongside his name change.
It's not Welford Ireland of course but Wexford Ireland, which is the home of his sister Annie Eugenie Richards.
Just to clarify Thomas Ptolemy Hutchins is definitely the same person as Thomas Ptolemy Leighton - therefore Fred Hutchins definitely became Fred Leighton. As to whether the Fred Leighton, music hall manager, of Ilford is yours these facts suggest he might be:
* he lied about his last name, so lying about his place of birth would go with the territory, and may have given him 'character' as an 'Oirishman' rather than a Hutchins from Shepton (far too rural to convince as a man of the theatre)
* Ilford is very near his family in Southend - remember he was still married to Gertie at this point and she was obviously in the theatre trade too judging by the fact she has actor/actress living with them
* the age of Fred Leighton (born Ireland) fits our Fred Hutchins (born Shepton Mallet) both are 37
* Fred had a real family connection with Wexford Ireland, so if anyone asked him about the town where he said he came from, why, he knew all the answers, because he had visited his sister there!
FredLeighton; Hutchins; Bond; Dobbs; Colmer; Jacob; Padfield; Allen; Churchill; Bennett; Boast; Boyens Starkey; Calvert; <br> Hoskins; Sargent; Lightermen & Watermen on the River Thames; Greenwich/Charlton; <br> Potter; Kendall; Holmes; Bright; Walker; Penny; Daniels; Buck; Rumble; Hind/s & Burt; Bobbins; Harding; Henderson, Sault; Juden;

Offline casalguidi

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Re: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6
« Reply #10 on: Monday 17 August 09 22:27 BST (UK) »
What about this family - a few coincidences don't you think?

1901 - 6 Avondale Villas, Elvino? Road, Lewisham

George FRANCIS head mar 39 watchmaker b.Ireland
Gertrude wife 33 teacher pianoforte? (own account at home) b.Somerset Bath
Thomas son 7 b.Winchester Hants
May dau 5 b.Ireland

RG13/557 folio 13 page 18

Casalguidi :)
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline casalguidi

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Re: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6
« Reply #11 on: Monday 17 August 09 23:17 BST (UK) »
Have you seen these two COLMER entries from a Sheppey newspaper index http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~penney/detailed%20card%20data/ecc.htm ???

I also noticed "Fred Leighton" skating rink, hockey, billiards with an Ilford, Essex telephone number 1912-1916 - would that be the same chap in Essex 1911 census?

Can you be sure that your *Frederick James HUTCHINS* was the one born in Shepton Mallet if you haven't found him on any census with Frances Gertrude ???

Casalguidi :)


Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Potter

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Re: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 18 August 09 01:50 BST (UK) »
casalguidi - you are good!!!

Your Lewisham Census suggestion could be spot on... and I have never been able to find it!

Plus the two COLMER entries are correct!

In fact both these younger brothers of Frances Gertrude died at a young age in Sheerness on the Isle of Sheppey.

I am in contact with the descendants of Albert Ernest who died in 1906 age 36.

I surprisingly found that it was in fact FRED LEIGHTON, brother-in-law,  that bought the Deed of Purchase of that grave.

I visited the Grave in Halfway Cemetery on the Isle of Sheppey and found Arnold Hugh age 28 was buried there too... his last abode was at the Leighton's house at

67 Marine Parade, Sheerness (also called Shrimp Terrace)

Arnold Hugh Colmer was Buried as COLMER (no forename) in 1907 in the same grave with his half-brother, Albert (ERNEST) COLMER.
 
We now know that Gertrude name had changed before her brothers died and this is confirmed by the inscription she had engraved there when Arnold died which said...

'The Dearly Loved Brothers of Gertrude LEIGHTON
Gone, But Not Forgotten.'


Later, on 15th May 1937, Frances (GERTIE) Gertrude LEIGHTON nee.COLMER aged 68,  was also buried in the same grave with her two brothers at Halfway Cemetery.


Now regarding the certainty of Frederick James Hutchins being the one born in Shepton Mallet is clear from their Marriage Certificate...

MARRIAGES
Name: Hutchins, Frederick James
Record Type: Marriages, Quarter: Sept. Year: 1893
District: Yeovil, County: Somerset
Volume: 5c, Page: 706
COLMAN(er!), Frances Gertrude 1893 Sept.
Marriages: Yeovil,Somerset
14/03/2005 Notes confirmed - I sent off for that marriage certificate.
The Witnesses are Florence HUTCHINS (sister), Ptolemy Samuel Henry COLMER & A. Ernest COLMER.
Father`s are Thomas Hutchins, Profession: Jeweller; and Ptolemy Samuel Henry Colman(sic), Profession M.D. & J.P. - Doctor & Justice of the Peace!

OCCUPATION
At Marriage to Gertie in 1893, he was Frederick James Hutchins, a `Master Watch Maker`
He was Fred Leighton by 1915, serving as an `Army Officer` according to May`s Marriage Cert. in 1916.
Later that same year on my grandfather & Ethel`s Marriage Cert. he was a `Theatrical Manager`
...but it seems from British Phone Book records (many) that during the 1930`s he was again Frederick James Hutchins, `Clock & Watch Maker`

Unfortunately Fred left Frances & the family in the Minster home... probably the marriage broke down as a result of his flamboyant Theatre Lifestyle.

A daughter of Gertrude May Eugenie JOYCE nee. LEIGHTON formerly HUTCHINS says...
My Grandfather must have been at the Hippodrome during the twenties or early thirties, I should imagine. As to when he was in the London theatres, I just don`t know. All I was told was that he was Manager at some of the London theatres, can`t remember which ones though. I think he used to be known as Tom Leighton then. My Grandmother lived on her own in Sidcup and I know I used to go to stay with her during the school holidays, and he was never mentioned at all. I got the feeling that he was the bad sheep of the family [perhaps that was why the change of name]. Then my Gran bought a little place up Minster and moved there, which I used to visit a lot. Still he was never mentioned.

I found out more information about my HUTCHINS FAMILY via information regarding their Wills!
FJH Father: Thomas Hutchins London 10 Feb 1902 ~Charlotte (wid) £1920.17.2 Watchmaker, Silversmith 23 High Street Shepton Mallet d 7 Oct 1901
FJH Mother: Charlotte Hutchins London 22 Apr 1921 to Florence Josephine Jarratt (wid) £440.15.5 92 Queens Road, Wimbledon Surrey d 2 Mar 1921
FJH Sister: Florence Josephine Jarratt London 22 Dec 1932 to <b>Frederick James Hutchins (manager)</b> £986.17.7 449 Fairmount (or 44a?) Road, Brixton Hill d 13 Oct 1932 [age 68 Lambeth]
FJH himself! It seems that he has changed his name back to HUTCHINS and married again!!!!
Frederick James Hutchins London 27 Nov 1946 ~Louisa Frances (wid) £882.0.8 92 Queens Road Wimbledon d 28 Apr 1946 (age 72)

16/11/2007 Now found Frederick J HUTCHINS in British Phone Books... many entries - eg. 1936 - living at 92 Queens Rd where he conducts his CLOCK & WATCH MAKER business... So he has changed his name & occupation back to as it was on 1891 Census!

20 Nov 2007 - Suddenly I realised today that Gertie may have married a Fred Leighton - there may be two different men!
Also, that FJ Hutchins Will was written on 4th June 1937 less than a month after Gertie died on 9th May 1937!
So if he was a bigamist, his marriage would have finally been legitimate! What a puzzle!

But I have never found a second marriage for Fred or Gertie Hutchins.

The question is still not resolved... Is Fred Hutchins & Fred Leighton the same man - or two different men?
FredLeighton; Hutchins; Bond; Dobbs; Colmer; Jacob; Padfield; Allen; Churchill; Bennett; Boast; Boyens Starkey; Calvert; <br> Hoskins; Sargent; Lightermen & Watermen on the River Thames; Greenwich/Charlton; <br> Potter; Kendall; Holmes; Bright; Walker; Penny; Daniels; Buck; Rumble; Hind/s & Burt; Bobbins; Harding; Henderson, Sault; Juden;


Offline Potter

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Re: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 18 August 09 02:47 BST (UK) »
Possible Army Officer FRED LEIGHTON - but could he also be the man at Ilford Skating Rink?
FredLeighton; Hutchins; Bond; Dobbs; Colmer; Jacob; Padfield; Allen; Churchill; Bennett; Boast; Boyens Starkey; Calvert; <br> Hoskins; Sargent; Lightermen & Watermen on the River Thames; Greenwich/Charlton; <br> Potter; Kendall; Holmes; Bright; Walker; Penny; Daniels; Buck; Rumble; Hind/s & Burt; Bobbins; Harding; Henderson, Sault; Juden;

Offline Potter

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Re: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 18 August 09 03:08 BST (UK) »
JULY 2008 I feel absolutely certain now that FRED HUTCHINS never changed his name to Fred Leighton!
NB.2009 - Now not so sure!
Fred Leighton the entertainer seems such a different character to the watch maker & jeweller Fred HUTCHINS
If Fred LEIGHTON was a partner to Gertie, they could not marry as Gertie and F J HUTCHINS never divorced, but she changed her surname & her children`s surnames to LEIGHTON. May`s line was not affected as her name changed to JOYCE with marriage anyway...
but my Grandfather, My Father, Uncle and us all ended up with the surname of LEIGHTON instead of HUTCHINS... unbelievable, but true.
Mystery solved. The Fred that walked out on my Great Grndmother in Sheerness/Minster was Fred Leighton, not Fred Hutchins.
FRED HUTCHINS had parted from Gertie in the late 1890`s and also left his children behind... from our perspective it seems as though he just forgot about us, his descendants... and he went on to have another family, just as if we did not exist...

If only I could find them both at the same time in different places... but I have not been able to... so Fred HUTCHINS could have taken on the Surname of LEIGHTON as a stage name for at least 20 years from 1896 (when he is HUTCHINS as father on daughter Mays Birth Cert.)  until at least 1916 (when he is LEIGHTON as Father on Tom & May's Marriage Certs) then back to HUTCHINS (when he is again HUTCHINS as Father on Reginald Frederick HUTCHINS Birth Cert.)

Over a century has passed since this parting, but if anyone is reading this and has any knowledge of my HUTCHINS ancestors
or FRED LEIGHTON, I would be most grateful of any information, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant...
Please contact me now via this website.

Attached - FRED LEIGHTON - Entertainments Manager & Licence Holder 1905 -1908 at the Sheerness Hippodrome
FredLeighton; Hutchins; Bond; Dobbs; Colmer; Jacob; Padfield; Allen; Churchill; Bennett; Boast; Boyens Starkey; Calvert; <br> Hoskins; Sargent; Lightermen & Watermen on the River Thames; Greenwich/Charlton; <br> Potter; Kendall; Holmes; Bright; Walker; Penny; Daniels; Buck; Rumble; Hind/s & Burt; Bobbins; Harding; Henderson, Sault; Juden;

Offline casalguidi

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Re: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 18 August 09 08:25 BST (UK) »
Quote
Also, that FJ Hutchins Will was written on 4th June 1937 less than a month after Gertie died on 9th May 1937!

What about Frederick J HUTCHINS marrying Louisa F GREEN Apr May Jun 1937 Surry North Eastern (covered Wimbledon) registration district ref. 2a 212 - the timing would perhaps fit and thus his will could have been written soon after he married Louisa?

Despite them seemingly moving around so much at times, have you explored electoral registers/local street directories for the addresses you have to see when/how persons are recorded there?

Has anybody looked for an obituary for Frederick James HUTCHINS?

Casalguidi :)
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Potter

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Re: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 18 August 09 12:25 BST (UK) »
casalguidi - You should be earning money  for this... I have paid researchers and waited weeks & not got the leads that you are providing - You are Good!

The Marriage is them!!!!    Great!   I have spent months and not found it!

If you knew how frustrated I have been after endless hours of searching & getting nowhere! 

I really want to thank you from the depths of my heart -  finding them on the 1901 and now this marriage - EXCELLENT!

Regarding Street Directories - I have found information on Electoral Rolls for other members of my family, but the books for the early 1900's were not at Sheerness Library... I need to go to Chatham or Maidstone Library for them - Maidstone is a dreadful place to drive to... I have been meaning to take a bus there and aim to find some time this summer to do that.

Regarding Obituaries - I have never been very successful at finding Obituaries... but have a great one (found by a relative) for Thomas Hutchins, Fred's father.
I am a member of both ancestry & findmypast and have been giddy at times after searching through newspaper microfiche at various libraries & got nowhere.
Could someone tell me the best way to search for Obituaries please?

You have been so helpful - thanks again so much for your time and successful research leads! I cannot thank you enough!  Very very much appreciated!
FredLeighton; Hutchins; Bond; Dobbs; Colmer; Jacob; Padfield; Allen; Churchill; Bennett; Boast; Boyens Starkey; Calvert; <br> Hoskins; Sargent; Lightermen & Watermen on the River Thames; Greenwich/Charlton; <br> Potter; Kendall; Holmes; Bright; Walker; Penny; Daniels; Buck; Rumble; Hind/s & Burt; Bobbins; Harding; Henderson, Sault; Juden;

Offline Potter

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Re: Local History: Rushey Green, Lewisham, London, SE6
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 18 August 09 12:42 BST (UK) »
Hello Valda,
I had an email to say that you left me a message... I can't see it though... wonder if it was lost with the starting of a new page for this conversation?
Thanks very much to all at RootsChat for your help... Amazing accurate search results! I am very grateful.
Kindest regards,
Linda May Rumble nee.Leighton
FredLeighton; Hutchins; Bond; Dobbs; Colmer; Jacob; Padfield; Allen; Churchill; Bennett; Boast; Boyens Starkey; Calvert; <br> Hoskins; Sargent; Lightermen & Watermen on the River Thames; Greenwich/Charlton; <br> Potter; Kendall; Holmes; Bright; Walker; Penny; Daniels; Buck; Rumble; Hind/s & Burt; Bobbins; Harding; Henderson, Sault; Juden;