Author Topic: look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool  (Read 4805 times)

Offline charneca

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look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool
« on: Friday 25 November 05 22:45 GMT (UK) »
hi-i am looking for info on my grandparents-JOHN MCCARTHY married to ANNIE nee KEATING
in 1911 i know they were living at 41 lemon street Liverpool -registration district WEST DERBY -sub district KIRKDALE-as my mother was born there.JOHN MCCARTHY was listed as a marine fireman on my mothers birth certificate.I dont know where they were in 1901!!
John mccarthy died in 18 sept 1942 allegedly aged 67 in ramsey hospital in Isle of man-he was on a tug i believe to do with the alexandra towing co ltd-his body was taken back to Liverpool where he was buried on 23 September 1942 at ford cemetary aged 66years!!He must have been a popular chap to get his body taken back to liverpool in the middle of the war!
Ultimately I want to get back to his birth and his wife's-I know it is sooooooooo hard.I discovered that because he actually died in a hospital in IOM -though working on a boat  at sea-his death was not registered anywhere in the UK-some experienced  people would have known that-I did not at the time-all I knew was that he was buried in liverpool-obituary/condolences in the Liverpool Echo-but no record of his death...........................until IOM
he was also referred to as a marine engineer and steamship engineer as well as marine fireman??
Any help would be most welcome

Offline MaryA

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Re: look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 26 November 05 16:35 GMT (UK) »
First things first I think you need to find out what John and Annie's father's names were and what age they gave on their marriage certificate.

I can't find their marriage using any of the free online sites so have one or two suggestions.

If you are able to get to a Record Office - I wonder if you are in the Liverpool area? - if so then where you need is the top floor of the William Brown Street Library and search the marriage indexes starting probably about six months before their first child was born and widening in case of any earlier children who died. 

If you aren't able to get to a Record office of LDS Centre (you can search for one of those at www.familysearch.org) then www.1837online.com has the full set of indexes but you have to purchase a subscription to see the images.

Once you have both names with a matching reference you will be able to order the marriage certificate online at www.gro.gov.uk at a cost of £7. 

This will give you their address at the time of their marriage, their ages and occupations but also their father's names and occupations and a couple of witnesses who may be related.

That information is going to help enormously to identify the families in the 1901 census and get you going.

There are a number of John McCarthys in Lancashire of around about the right age, one of them is in fact a Marine Fireman living in St Martins Cottages with his wife Margaret.  He is 28 born Ireland and she is 24 born Liverpool.  It could be that you might find John was a widower when he married Annie.  You won't know without the marriage certificate.

Good luck
Mary
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from The National Archives <br />Lunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), <br />Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), <br />Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford)<br />Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin)

Offline charneca

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Re: look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 27 November 05 00:27 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou mary-no unfortunately I am not in Liverpool-but will do as you suggested!!
regards
charneca

Offline charneca

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Re: look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 27 September 06 00:05 BST (UK) »
hi mary-long time I know!!I now have what I believe to be the marriage certificate.
dated 11 november 1899
JOHN MCCARTHY AGED 22 YEARS RESIDING AT 9 LLEWELLYN ST L'POOL
FATHERS NAME JOHN MCCARTHY (DECEASED)
ANNIE KEATING AGED 21 YEARS RESIDING AT 3 LLEWELLEN ST L'POOL
FATHERS NAME JOHN KEATING
The marriage took place in st sylvesters rc church,silvester st!!!!
I still have not found any record of his (John Mccarthy's) birth
regards
charneca


Offline MaryA

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Re: look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 27 September 06 11:08 BST (UK) »
Hi again,

Well with that help we can at least locate them in 1901 and see how much further we can get backwards.  I think this marriage is a little earlier than you expected?  It's niced to have the basis of the ages to make a start from, although I think Annie was a little economical with her age on the marriage cert, probably so that there was no issue over parental consent.

6 in 3 Court, Silvester Street, St Martin, Liverpool
John McCarthy Head M 23 Dock Labourer Lancashire Liverpool
Annie Wife M 19                                              " "
John Son 10 Months                                       " "
RG13/ 3409; Folio: 7; Page: 5

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from The National Archives <br />Lunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), <br />Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), <br />Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford)<br />Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin)

Offline MaryA

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Re: look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 27 September 06 11:29 BST (UK) »
Now this is interesting, this is the entry which fits best in 1891 and they are living not too far distant from Silvester Street, you can see both places on www.streetmap.co.uk  Unfortunately we don't know when his father John died, although there are a number of entries in the death index which could fit both John and Ellen since I don't find this family altogether in 1901, but I would think that Ellen is the mother of young David but not of the rest of the children.

85 Fontenoy Street, Dale Street, Liverpool
John McCarthy Head Head M 44 Labourer Foundry Ireland Kinsale
Ellen Wife M 31 America N York
John Son 15 Shopboy Port Liverpool
Elizabeth daur 13                "
Ellen daur 11 "
Margaret daur 10 "
Annie daur 5 "
William Son 7 "
David Son 1 "
RG12/ 2907; Folio 16; Page 6

Despite all the children using the same name McCarthy, it might be worth keeping in mind where William's name comes in the list - ie after a younger sister, this just might be an indication that he is Ellen's child and not one of the original McCarthys.

You need to start looking at the 1881 census for yourself at www.familysearch.org.

Does the occupation of John the father match that given on the marriage certificate, they often given an occupation despite stating deceased.  Are any of the witnesses any of John's siblings to confirm this family?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from The National Archives <br />Lunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), <br />Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), <br />Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford)<br />Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin)

Offline MaryA

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Re: look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 27 September 06 11:58 BST (UK) »
Again based on location I suspect that this is Annie's family in 1891, but Annie is not evident, it could be that she has two names and used different ones or that she was Anastatia.  Was Annie's father's occupation given as seaman on the marriage certificate?

All born Ireland except where noted.
10 Court 11, Silvester Street, St Martin, Liverpool
John Keating Head M 56 Seaman
Mary Wife M 42
Julia daur S 21 Domestic Servant
Robert Son 17 Wheelwright
Anastatia daur 14 Scholar
Mary daur 12 "
John Jos Son 10 "
Martin Son 8 "
Margaret daur 6 " Liverpool
Agnes daur 2            "
Marie daur 2 months     "
RG12/ 2905; Folio 132; Page 30

Once again any clues with witnesses on the certificate might help identify siblings.

Are there any aunts or uncles that you are able to talk to who may remember their own aunts or uncles and help with the identification?

Obviously you won't find this family in the 1881 census since Martin was born in Ireland so they must have left and come to Liverpool somewhere between 1883 and 1885.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from The National Archives <br />Lunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), <br />Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), <br />Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford)<br />Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin)

Offline charneca

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Re: look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 27 September 06 23:50 BST (UK) »
mary -you have been busy!!Thank you so much for all your efforts.
As regards the marriage certificate re JOHN MCCARTHY (father deceased) his occupation is dock labourer.JOHN KEATING his occupation is also dock labourer.
the witnesses were C FOLEY and B FURLONG.
No one to ask I'm afraid.
One cousin did mention once that John (Annies's husband) may have been an orphan-but that does not really help!!
I will look at the sites you suggested.
regards
charneca

Offline MaryA

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Re: look up 1901 census -mccarthy-liverpool
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 28 September 06 11:51 BST (UK) »
One cousin did mention once that John (Annies's husband) may have been an orphan-but that does not really help!!

That actually probably helps more than you think since this is more likely to be his entry in 1891.

At District St Georges Certified Industrial School for Boys, South Everton is John James McCarthy, 12 year old scholar, born Lancashire Liverpool.
RG12; Piece: 2950; Folio 145; Page 7

This is the only entry that I can find for a John McCarthy without parents, the only one with father John (bearing in mind that there is 8 years in between 1891 and the date of his marriage when his father could have died) is the one I gave earlier.

Now I think you need to look into whether there are any Application or Admissions Registers for the school.   I must admit I don't see anything of the sort listed in the Liverpool Records Office Online Catalogue http://archive.liverpool.gov.uk/  but this tells you about where it was
RefNo    720 KIR/2317
Title    47 Everton Road, Liverpool: correspondence, papers and drawings concerning renovation of property of St George's Industrial School and new wall in Lower Breck Road.
Date    1901-1903

I can only suggest that you contact the Records Office, telephone number and email address given here http://archive.liverpool.gov.uk/contact.html  and see what you can find out from there.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from The National Archives <br />Lunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), <br />Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), <br />Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford)<br />Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin)