Emma HAMLIN

[Dizzy Escape]

No sign of Johanna & 5 yr old Emma in London in 1841, sadly - yet!    For those who are interested, I've come across an 'HHH' website (Hamley, Hambley, Hamlyn), which claims West Country heritage for these families for seven centuries, especially CORNWALL, DEVON, GLOS. and SOMERSET. Apparently there are also branches found in BERKS., HANTS., NORFOLK, SUFFOLK or SUSSEX.  Also in EAST YORKSHIRE.... so there are quite a lot of places to look when I come to trying to trace William the butcher's county of origin!
PS  There is actually an Emma Hamlin, aged 5, who in 1841 is just around the corner from William Hamlyn who is languishing in the Bloomsbury Workhouse.  She is living in St Pancras with her parents Robert & Hannah, and elder and younger siblings.  (It is clear from the 1851 Census that she is a daughter.)  Robert Hamlin is a carpenter and later an organ builder -  from Devon.

[janan]

Do you think it possible that Robert is related to William and he and Hannah adopted Emma  if Johanna  died    Another avenue to pursue perhaps and with a Devon connection  Keep us posted of further developments.
Jan

[Dizzy Escape]

Yes - that's an idea.  I'd been wondering whether Hannah was actually Johanna, too.  I'll let you know if William Hamlin's death certificate throws any light on all this.  There's always a chance his death was reported by a family member, although we might find that someone from the workhouse performed that function. 

[janan]

Yes I was wondering whether Hannah was Johanna - are she and Robert together as husband and wife in 1851 ( not that that means anything she still might have been William's widow living as his brother's wife ) Also wondered if the Ann Hamlon on the marriage certificate was Johanna. Tis certainly a puzzle but it wouldn't be half so much fun if it all fell easily into place
Jan

[Dizzy Escape]

Oh, I wish it would fall easily into place!  For the record, I should flag up that there is a Johanna Hamlyn whose death is recorded in the March quarter of 1840.  However, this is in Newington, which is over the river, so I shall wait to see what William's death certificate tells me before sending off for this one.  I suppose we can assume that Mrs Hamlyn (Emma's mother) was somewhat younger than William, given that he is 60 when Emma was 5. 

[janan]

Let us know what the death certificate tells you
Cheers Jan

[Dizzy Escape]

Hi.  Death certificate has just arrived: 
5 January 1843 at St Giles Workhouse:  William Hamlyn Male 61 yrs (could be 66 yrs) No occupation mentioned    ; cause of death: diseased bladder; informant: Robert Busey(?), occupier of St Giles Workhouse.

So - no family member to verify our theories  but confirmation that this is probably the same chap as listed on the 1841 Census - i.e., William Hamlyn, aged 60, butcher, resident at St Giles Workhouse.

Perhaps I should send off for the death certificate of the Johanna I found in Newington.  Any other suggestions as to where to go from here?

[Arranroots]

What a shame!  I am still following and hoped there might be something to assist you on the cert!

Plan to reread the thread and see where you have got to.  It is getting a bit difficult to follow.  maybe you should post all the known facts in a summary at this point??  It might make clearer what we haven't tried.

kind regards, Arranroots 

[janan]

Hi
Shame about the certificate but at least it would appear to be the same man you found in 41. However this baptism

Emma Hamlin born 26th June 1836 baptised 28 Aug 1836 Old Church St Pancras parents Robert and Hannah Hamlin

would seem to disprove theories we had about it being your Emma in 41 living with Robert and Hannah Although being Old Church they may be a related family.

I think I would send for that Johanna death certificate.

Also think Arranroots idea of summarising the facts so far would help clarify things.

If Johanna is dead by 41 and William in the workhouse where is Emma? Not in the workhouse with him? back in Devon with family? assuming Wiliam is related to Robert and hails from there. But if she is we haven't found her - except for big Jane and where is she in 51 and 61

Jan