Howarth Butterworth - manchester and South lancs

[ginge119]

I have 5 medals belonging to a Howarth Butterworth (my gt-gt grandfather), but the 2 from the Boer War bear a different service number than that of the 3 for WW1. I have a copy of the WW1 medal roll. But nothing about the Boer war Howarth. He was born in 1868, is this likely to be the same person? he was a private in both wars!
In the Boer War the medals say 705 Pte H  Butterworth M/c Regt
On the WW1 medals, 3531 Pte H Butterworth S Lan Regt.

Also I am not sure one of the medals is correct as he has 2 bars on the edward medal 1901 and 1900?

Please help

[liverpool annie]

This is what I found! - this card doesn't mention Manchester Regiment ! - is the other number that Ginge has - from the Labour Corp?
 
Medal card of Butterworth, Howarth
Corps   Regiment No   Rank
South Lancashire Regiment   3531   Private
Labour Corps   690880   Private

Can you post the card you have Ginge?
   

Annie

[harribobs]

If he was a regular in South Africa in 1900, he was 32 and when the great war started he's be 46, so it's possible

If he has three WW1 medals, one of those should be the 1914 or 14/15 star meaning he fought abroad during those early years

my gut feeling is they are two different people, he could still be a regular at 46 but I'd have expected him to still be in the Manchesters and doing better than a private, flimsy i know

I will have a look for any Boer War references

(btw I knew red haired Curley a long time ago)

[CatOne]

There is the birth of a Howarth Butterworth in 1893, so this could be the one that served in WW1?.......

Howarth Butterworth June 1893 Manchester Vol 8d Page 206

Theres also the marriage (in Manchester) of another Howarth Butterworth in 1892, but I cant find a birth for this one..... so could these be father and son?.....

Regards,
Catherine

[ginge119]

Annie,

Thanks, I have the same medal card for the WW1 Howarth Butterworth with the same details.

Harribob

That is why it keeps puzzling me. But I wonder whether the WW1 is Howarth Jnr? Is there anyway to seperate the 2? How would I get any info on the Boer war Howarth?

Catherine,

The marriage in 1892 is Howarth Snr and the birth a year later is his son. Which is why I am now thinking that the 2 have been drawn together to produce a soldier who fought in both the wars.


Many thanks to all

[OldBraggs]

Any surviving papers for Boer War service will be in the National Archive. But these will not help as they will only be about that period of service. You need the WWI papers (if they survive) as these would give you his age and any previous service. Given that senior would be 46 years old in 1914 it is more likely to be father and son.

Steve

[manmack]

hiya ginge,chris could be right about him being the same man,in the 1901 census,theres only one howarth butterworth aged 55,your howarth will be in south africa so he wont be on the census,BUT if there was a howarth junior,he would show up as an 8 year old,mack

[CatOne]

See 1901 RG13/3753 Folio 163 Page 3 for 8 year old Howarth Butterworth with mum Susan and siblings

Regards,
Catherine 

[Kevwood]

Hi, can you tell us more about the medals? especially the one with the 2 clasps. Can you put a picture on or describe the ribbons?

Kev.