Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?

[J.J.]

Yes, Martha...fingers crossed!!!  We are all looking forward to hearing what is on file.  So good of you to do this for Caroline... on behalf of all of us, really...
So KUDOS to YOU!!!  J.J.

[Caroline_d]

Hi

Just a few updates.

Janice... I had emailed the Legion early on as it was one of the sites you had recommended, and had a one line reply saying they "couldn't help" but would pass my email to their newsletter people.  I've not heard anything.

I've taken another look at the Villeneuve family web site and have again emailed (last attempt, this is my third try!). 

I had an email from a professor at McGills University saying that this evening they are doing a lecture for their website project and will be using this story as part of their presentation.

Thanks Martha for taking time to go to the library.  Fingers crossed!! 

Thanks all....Caroline

[Caroline_d]

duplicated posting in error!

[dennford]

Have just recieved the following,



On 11/16/05, World War 2 Ex RAF.co.uk <webmaster@worldwar2exraf.co.uk > wrote:
Dear Denis

we are about to add your details to the site for you. Before we do however would you please check and confirm that the details below are correct. Once confirmation is received we will then add the following to the Aircrew notice Board for you along with the relevant name and Squadron search page details .

Denis Ford and other contributors to "rootschat" are trying to find the identity of the attached photo which was found near the wreckage of a Wellington X serial MF509 from 22 OTU which crashed in Wales on 20/11/1944 whilst on a training exercise.
The crew were from the Canadian Air Force and all were reported killed on active service. The names of the crew were as follows
Sergeant Charles Hamel
Sergeant  Jules Robert Rene Villeneuve
Flying Officer William Joseph Allison
Flying Officer Joseph Paul Ernest Burke
Sergeant Arthur Grouix

Sergeant Gerald Dusablon

 
   Much more informationis available at the following adress
   http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,101535.0.html



If you can help identify the person in the photo then Dennis would like to hear from you and can be contacted at the email address below




                                                    Denn

[PrueM]

Excellent news Denn, and everyone! 
 
Prue

[Damien]

Hi,
Ive been thinking and thought it would be a great idea to lay a poppy wreath at the crash site next year on behalf of the family members that have been contacted,I'd be more than happy to do this.Could anyone find out if they would like me to do this?

[Caroline_d]

I've received a few emails from Bill Green who has kindly given me permission to post them.  He has some useful information regarding the uniform etc.

Hi Caroline,
                 Have been looking at the splendid efforts everyone is making in response to your request. A couple of points have occurred to me however.
 1 The young man in the photograph is not wearing any flying badges on his left breast, therefore it is unlikely in the extreme that he was part of the crew.
 2 There is no room between the eagle insignia on his shoulder and the seam of the arm for the word "Canada", suggesting that he was RAF rather than RCAF.
 3 No rank badges are visible on either arms or shoulders, again suggesting that he was not aircrew, since anyone who was aircrew would hold the rank of sergeant or above at this stage of the war.
 The possibilities therefore are that this young man was either a member of ground crew being given a "joy-ride" or he might well have been a member of the recovery crew sent to deal with the crash.
I know this may further complicate your seartch, but I believe them to be points worth considering.
Best wishes in your efforts to establish his identity, and thank you for caring enough.
                                       Sincerely,
                                                             Bill Green,
                                                                              Hon. Chair,
                                                                              Fenland Branch,
                                                                              Bomber command Association

Whilst it has always been a possibility that the photograph may have been dropped by someone investigating the crash scene or it could have been of a family member of one of the crew, we hadn't thought of the possibility of another member.  I read an article in the newpaper a week or so ago saying that the pilots liked to take the maintenance crews for a ride from time to time (the pilots did this at times to make sure the maintenance guys serviced the planes correctly!).  As there is no mention of another person on the memorial, I would presume that there was not another person on the plane, but I could be wrong. 

Bill Green sent another email with the following about the badge

note your comments in your Email. The fact that only the recognised crew members were named as casualties of the crash seems to confirm that our friend was not a crew member, but does not rule it out entirelyI'm afraid. The photograph could have been taken soon after his enlistment in the Air Force, before flying training had begun. The crew photographs on the forum appear to be of older chaps than the one you are investigating.
I have, however, studied our friend's picture more closely and am now pretty well convinced that he was RAF rather than RCAF. If you study the large button on his tunic, the RAF eagle is fairly easy to pick out in the centre, but there is no sign at all of the letters R.C.A.F. which I would have expected to see above the eagle. 

If he was RAF, where do we start??

[PrueM]

Hi Caroline and everyone,
Caroline - in light of these new confusions (!!!  ) might it be worth scanning our man at a high resolution, to bring out the detail of the buttons and badges?  To post as big a pic as possible, you could just focus on those little bits, instead of doign the whole thing.
What do you think?
Prue

[Caroline_d]

Rescanned as high as possible