Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?

[Caroline_d]

I've rescanned the original picture hoping it's a little clearer.  My cousin will email the picture of the crew shortly and we will see if there is some way of improving it too.  I don't know if this is of any significance but there appears to be some shiny glue marks on the back with bits left of a dark navy card.  It appears it was stuck to it and had been ripped off.

[J.J.]

Thanks Caroline...much better....it will come in handy should the visual media come through!  J.J.

[Caroline_d]

I've just read some information given given to my grandfather which my cousin had printed out for him to pass to me.  It's about the crash and more information than I have found on the net.  Will speak to my cousin to see here he had it.  It says:

Flight History:
Aircraft MF509 a Wellington MK10 took off from Stratford-Upon-Avon, a satellite airfield to RAF Wellesbourne Mountford home to No22 O.T.U (operational Training Unit) at 19.26 hours on 20/11/44 for a night cross country navigation training exercises.  Shortly before 20.50 hrs the crew sent a radio message seeking permission to descend below cloud base as they were experiencing trouble with the Starboard engine. (Possibly due to icing in the carb).  Their request was granted and whilst descending over he mountains of the Brecon Beacons their aircraft flew into Carreg Goch at approx grid ref: 161/816171.

It lists the crew as follows:
Pilot: SGT CHARLES HAMEL, RCAF
Nav: SGT JULES ROBERT RENE VILLENEUVE, RCAF
B/A: F/O WILLIAM JOSEPH ALLISON, RCAF
W/AG: SGT JOSEPH PAUL ERNEST BURKE, RCAF
W/AG: SGT ARTHUR GROULX, RCAF
A/G: SGT JOSEPH LIONEL UNDERIC DU SABLON, RCAF

Note: Sgt Hamel was posthumously promoted to Pilot Officer and Flying Officer Allison was promoted to Flight Lieutenant.

[J.J.]

These photos show how misty it can be in the mountains.
Perhaps the fog was also a factor for the poor lads.


wreckage in the mist:
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/ww/cg/cg.html


(hover over photo to see wellington ) http://us.geocities.com/warrenvadams/621adventure.htm

[Caroline_d]

I've received another picture of the crew from my cousin who has come up with something which we haven't thought of before.  He mentions that the man on the right has a large navigators bag in front of him.  As Villeneuve was the navigator and is a possible match to the picture then it is possible that he has solved it.  He also mentions that the man on the left was wearing a white scarf...does this have any significance for him being a pilot or would they all have had one and he just chose to wear it on that day?

Could the type of bags the men are holding or have placed in front of them be significant to their duties?

He has also given a picture of the crew...which should be clearer than the original....thanks Damien.

[eillo]

My two step brothers were also in the service. Henry Villeneuve was in the army, and
Jules Villeneuve was in the Air force; he is buried in England

I have had a look around and in actual fact Jules Villeneuve, one of the crew who died, was  Earl Scofield's HALF-brother, not a step brother. They shared the same mother.

Jules' parents were Jean Baptiste Villeneuve & Clara Chartrand
Earl's parents were Ralph William Scofield & Clara Chartrand

Seems Earl is/was a Metis (http://www.metisnation.org/metisVOYAGEUR/mv05may.pdf p. 11) so most likely Jules was too (through their mother) I'm also a Metis and a member of OMAA (Ontario Metis Aboriginal Association) I can ask them if they will publish this story in the magazine and/or on their website.

[deadants]

I just adjusted the brightens and contrast. to make it a bit clearer.

[Caroline_d]

Thanks Eillo for the update...just goes to show don't believe everything you see in the press!

I contacted the Villeneuve family website a long time ago as they had him listed on their tree and the details that he died in a crash...so I thought it was a good lead....a few emails were sent..but no response unfortunately.  Hoping you get further this time.

[PrueM]

Mystery lad just has to be the one on the right, don't you think?  Having now seen deadants' cleaned-up larger version, I'm certain of it.

Prue