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Messages - meadowbank

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1
Scotland / Re: Any football historians able to help?
« on: Friday 19 July 24 17:04 BST (UK)  »
GJ Aitken and AV Lothian were both teachers pre-WW1 at Stow Teacher Training College (it became Jordanhill Training College in the 1920s). 

Stow College had a team in the Glasgow Churches League so it is likely they helped to run its football team. Hence my best guess is that this is a photo of the Stow College team about 1910 - which fits with previous replies.

NB there was another Stow College founded in the 1930s which taught engineering and science.

2
Durham / Re: Professional Footballer at Sunderland AFC
« on: Wednesday 06 October 21 21:05 BST (UK)  »
Earlier this year I published a Who's Who of Scotland football internationalists, so I can probably tell you quite a lot about the working lives of footballers in the Victorian era!  Many Scots were tempted south with the promise of a well-paid job at their trade, together with added money to play football, and a lump sum up front to sign on the dotted line.  Gradually the practice evolved into full-time football as the top clubs realised they needed to have the full attention of their players.

This is the entry for your ancestor:

Hugh Wilson
Born 18 March 1869 Bilboa, Mauchline, Ayrshire
Died 5 April 1940 Kilmarnock Infirmary, Ayrshire
Scotland v Wales 1890, 1902; England 1897; Ireland 1904.
Mauchline; Newmilns; Sunderland 1890-99 (Football League 1892, 1893, 1895); Bedminster 1899-1900; Bristol City 1900-01; Third Lanark 1901-07 (Scottish League 1904; Scottish Cup 1905); Kilmarnock Apr 1907-08.
Wilson won four caps over a 14-year period, gaining his first honour in 1890 at left half while with Newmilns. Later that year he turned professional with Sunderland where he really showed his class and took part in their glory years with three league championships in 1892, 1893 and 1895. Known as ‘Lalty’ he was famous for his long one-handed throw-ins, which apparently were responsible for a revision of the laws in 1895 to insist that throws must be two-handed. He was capped for a second time in Scotland’s impressive 2-1 win over England in 1897. He left Sunderland in 1899, aged 30, for the relative obscurity of the Southern League at Bedminster, which merged with Bristol City a year later. It might have indicated his career was winding down yet he was far from finished, and when he returned to Scotland in 1901 with Third Lanark he found a new lease of life. In six years at Cathkin, he was outstanding and won a Scottish League title, the Scottish Cup, two more Scotland caps and made an appearance for the Scottish League. His career finally ended in 1908 after a season at Kilmarnock, shortly before he turned 40. His son John was a noted left back with Hearts, Dunfermline and Hamilton.

3
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« on: Saturday 25 July 20 11:39 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: wivenhoe on Saturday 25 July 20 10:49 BST (UK)


You do not have death for John WALKIN...or for Sarah WALKIN nee OWENS.......son John died 1900......Mary (dau?) is unaccounted for....you do not know what happened to son James.

Why are you interested in this family?

Sorry, but do people making a post have to state their reasons? I made a simple request about the names on a marriage certificate.

All I am trying to do is establish the background to the father of John Walker (1876-1900) the footballer.

4
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« on: Saturday 25 July 20 10:20 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: wivenhoe on Saturday 25 July 20 05:10 BST (UK)

Thank you for giving the information about dates and places.


What happened to James? -

WALKIN James   1883  South Leith

I don't know. The name is too common to research easily, but once the Scotlandspeople centres reopen I should be able to find out.

5
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« on: Friday 24 July 20 15:45 BST (UK)  »
Ok, thanks - my mistake about Mary Walker, clearly not the same.

As for other info:

The assault is reported in the Edinburgh Evening News on 30 August 1884. Just a paragraph.

John Walker's birth was registered as John Walkin on 20 June 1876 at 20 Smeaton Close, St Andrew Street, Leith. Parents John Walkin, labourer in sugar house, Sarah Walkin MS Owens.  Informant was the mother, signed by her mark. The registrar was Gilbert Archer (same as for the marriage).

For John Walker's death in 1900, again the informant was his mother, signed by her mark. He died on 1 August 1900 at 5 Queen Street, Leith. He was single. Parents John Walker and Sarah Walker MS Owens (neither of them marked as deceased).

Addresses:
1874 marriage: father at Redford's Close, Leith; mother at Vinegar Close, Leith
1876 birth: 20 Smeaton Close
1881 census: 48 Lumsdens Court
1884 newspaper report: Coalhill
1891 census: 8 Cable Wynd
1900 death: 5 Queen Street
Although there are many addresses, they are all within the same small area of Leith.

The mother, Sarah Owens, was born in Glasgow 30 June 1851, with Catholic baptism; in 1861 census in Glasgow with parents James Owens, labourer at coal hill, b1821 Ireland; Mary Owens, b1827 Ireland.  She appears to be a mill worker in Dundee in the 1871 census with her mother.

I haven't found either parent in the 1901 census, or their death records.

6
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« on: Friday 24 July 20 09:32 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

In answer to a few queries:

I know that John Walking/Walker b1851 was black through a newspaper report of him in 1884 being convicted of assaulting his wife 'A coloured man named John Walker ...'

However, their son, also John, was well known as a coloured footballer. I have his birth (Walkin) and death (Walker) certificates and loads of info about his life but nothing that sheds any further information on his parents. As a quick summary of his life (albeit with wrong dob) there is a wikipedia page about him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_(footballer,_born_1878)

The marriage witnesses John and Isabella McMahon (both of Redhall, Bonnington). They were married in 1871 as McMahon-Perry but I don't know what their connection was.

Mary Walkin b1878 died same year, registered as Mary Ann Walker.

As for the possible spellings of Walking and Mannerill, I have indeed tried all sorts of alternatives and asterisks without coming up with any leads. I am currently unable to do much with Scotlandspeople as their search rooms are currently closed, and Walker is too common a name for online browsing.

7
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« on: Thursday 23 July 20 20:17 BST (UK)  »
I am trying to work out the surnames on this Scottish marriage certificate from 1874. The parents of the groom (John Walking) look like John Walking, labourer, and Mary Walking, maiden surname Mannerill.

I cannot find John Walking (father or son) on earlier records, nor can I find a Mary Mannerill, or anything similar, on any records.

There are various challenges: first, the bride and groom are illiterate so have signed their names with a cross; this means they must have told the registrar their names verbally rather than writing them down. Hence these could be phonetic spellings.

Second, I know that John Walking, the groom, was black and was almost certainly foreign. He was born about 1851 and is not in the 1871 census. In the 1881 census his name was recorded as John Walker, born in 'West India' and in 1891 as 'Spain, Naturalised'.  [His wife Sarah Owens was born in Leith, Edinburgh, and I have her family background]

I've tried all sorts of searches on ancestry and findmypast without success.  There is also a parish marriage record in the Catholic church, but it has the same spellings, albeit in Latin.

I would welcome any suggestions! For example, if he was of Spanish/West Indies origin, what surname might result in the phonetic spelling 'Walking'? Something like Joaquin?

And as for his mother, the surname Mannerill is virtually unknown, so what else could it be?


8
Dunbartonshire / Re: Cumbernauld United Football Club
« on: Sunday 22 October 17 09:41 BST (UK)  »
The original Cumbernauld United was in existence from 1905 to 1924. They played initially in the Stirlingshire Junior League, then the Scottish Junior League from 1910.  Like many smaller clubs they closed down during WW1 and found it hard to get going after the conflict, restarting in 1921 but only managing to keep going for three more years.

I'm not aware of any books that would have a photo of the team.

Football kept going in the town with Cumbernauld Thistle, founded 1925, who played in the Scottish Junior League from 1930-1947 when they too folded.

There is a link to the present Cumbernauld United club, founded in 1964, as all three clubs played at Guy's Meadow.

9
Scotland / Re: Scottish football
« on: Friday 24 October 14 13:30 BST (UK)  »
He is probably William Wallace of junior club Lochgelly Albert in the 1930s, who played a couple of games as a trialist outside left for Raith Rovers early in 1935.  Those were his only senior appearances.

I can't find any record of an international appearance at any level, sorry!

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