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Messages - judt

Pages: [1] 2
1
Sussex / Re: Northiam Parish Records-TREE
« on: Thursday 10 March 16 11:50 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Nelle

Your info regarding the derivation of the name Tree was interesting and could explain why it's so popular around Rye. 

This brings me to another theory on the missing baptism for Griffiths/Griffess Tree.  According to his obituary in the Methodist newspaper, he was born a couple of months after the burial of his father, William Tree.  Griffiths and Elizabeth married in Rye, and I think it's possible that the Tree family moved to Rye after William's death.  Possibly they became Wesleyans there, with the King family.  I know the Tree family in NSW were very committed Wesleyans, and Elizabeth's brother, James Kelsey King, is buried in the Old Wesleyan area of Rookwood Cemetery in Sydney, so maybe Griffiths was never baptised in an Anglican church. 

Or he may have been baptised in a church in or near Rye that hasn't been indexed yet, or he records were lost, or his record is unreadable....

Elizabeth apparently marrying Richard Hicks in Northiam throws a bit of a spanner in my theory of the move to Rye.  Then again, Richard was also from Northiam I think.

It's possible the William Tree/Attree son of William and Elizabeth was the one who died in Brede, but I'm still fairly certain that this William is the brother of Griffiths, the first son of William and Elizabeth (Ashdown).  In those days it was fairly common for first children to be named after the parent of the same sex and there doesn't appear to be another William in the family.  I haven't tried to research many of the other children of William and Elizabeth, mainly because of a lack of certainty.  Will see what I can find in the bt on FamilySearch.

You appear to be making a lot of use of the SFHG database.  Have you been subscriber for long? 


Regards

Judy

2
Sussex / Re: Northiam Parish Records-TREE
« on: Thursday 10 March 16 01:23 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Nelle

I found the birth of William in 1794 in the bishop's transcripts.  It's listed there as William Tree, but with a small notation underneath which looks like 'also Attree'.  If the original parish records show the baptism as Attree, my assumption is that the person who performed or wrote up the parish records was a temporary relief unfamiliar with the locals (possibly from Westfield), but the person who transcribed for the bishop's transcripts was a local and knew the Tree family.  Whether the Tree and Attree families are related will be hard to determine, but the 1705 baptism for William Attree seems appropriate.

As I do not have access to the databases on the SFHG website, I can't say why William's 1820 burial doesn't seem to be there.  Databases are very handy, but they don't cover everything. I like to go to the original as well.  I'm now also seeing the benefit of viewing the bishop's transcripts as well as the original parish records, although only the bt are online at familysearch.  Ordering the film of the Northiam parish records is on my list....

Your comment about the William Tree at Cranbrook is interesting.  He could actually be the grandfather of our William Tree.  Or, our family may be his second (or third...) family.  The classic example for this is Daniel James Tree, first child born to Charlotte Manning and Daniel Tree in 1852 when Daniel was about 54.

In your searches of the database on the SFHG site, have you come across baptisms for Adeline and Edwin Tree, or any other children on Daniel?  Or a 2nd marriage in England? 

Will let you know if I find anything.


Regards

Judy

3
Sussex / Re: Northiam Parish Records-TREE
« on: Wednesday 09 March 16 10:56 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Nelle

I've been going through the Northiam bishop's transcripts and found Martha's death record.  She's listed as 'wife of Wm', so I assume that William was still alive at that time as numerous other women were listed just as 'widow'.  She was buried a couple of days after James Tree, an infant (age 3/4, which I assume is 9 months).  Can't find his baptism in Northiam, and these incidents may not be related.  It would be very coincidental if they weren't.

I think the 1796 William Tree record you saw was the baptism of the son of William and Martha, not a burial.  The Northiam records show a burial of William Tree of Beckley, age 74, on 8 Feb 1820.  This age makes his birth very close to the 1744 baptism for William Tree, and Beckley is only about 2 miles from Northiam.

Hope this all makes sense.  It gets very confusing, especially with all the similar names.


Regards

Judy


4
Sussex / Re: Northiam Parish Records-TREE
« on: Wednesday 09 March 16 05:08 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Nelle

It's a shame you're only in Hastings for a short time, but probably no matter how long you had there it would never be enough.  I was in the UK for 8 weeks a couple of years ago, driving from Sussex/Kent, Wiltshire/Gloucestershire, North Lincolnshire, Suffolk and Essex, and TNA in Kew, but I only scratched the surface.  If you're driving in the UK I strongly suggest setting up a GPS to take with you, especially if you're on your own.  If you download maps to a smartphone you won't need a data connection.

I have the Daniel who married Mary Boots listed as the uncle of Griffiths Tree (ie, a first cousin of your Daniel Tree).  It's therefore feasible that the uncle witnessed the marriage of Griffiths Tree and Elizabeth King, except that by 1833 Daniel had 8 children and was living in Bodiam (and the wedding was in Rye).  I was interested in you 'killing off' William and Martha which could explain the links between your Daniel and the William & Elizabeth Tree family and put your Daniel as the witness. 

William Tree / Mary Attison is the limit for me as well.  The online Northiam bishop's  transcripts in FamilySearch start at 1606, so if he was baptised there it should be possible to track him down.  However, it's highly likely that he was baptised in another parish, or in Kent, if at all.  What is the starting date for the online database of baptisms and burials that you have access to?


Regards

Judy

5
Sussex / Re: Northiam Parish Records-TREE
« on: Tuesday 08 March 16 11:19 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Nelle

I've done a rough chart of how I think your Daniel Tree is related to Griffess Tree, which I hope is attached to this post.  They were 2nd cousins once removed (I think).

Northiam is VERY close to the Kent border, so a lot of the family events happened over the border.  If you can get to the new Records Office in Brighton you might find out more for the Sussex events, but you need to go to Maidstone for the Kent records.  I would be interested to know whether you find much relevant info at the HRFHS - I can't find much info on their website regarding their catalogue.  How long are you going to be in Hastings?  It's about 1.25 hours by train to Brighton and 1.5 hours by train to Maidstone.

Did you realise that FamilySearch has some Northiam bishop's transcripts images online that can be viewed for free?  I've only recently discovered this.   You just need to create an account and log in to see them.  Some Kent records are also viewable on the FamilySearch website, but I think this may need to be done from an LDS library.  Copyright varies from county to county.

Your comments about your Daniel had me confused, but I assume you mean that William Tree (b 1744) and Martha Tree (nee French) died around 1800.  Your Daniel could have been brought up by William Tree and Elizabeth Ashdown, as they had a young family at the same time.  This would explain why Daniel was a witness to Griffess and Elizabeth Tree's marriage.  Would be interested in the details of this family for my database.  Have you obtained this info from the 'Sussex online birth and death database'?  Was this created by the Sussex family history society?  Have you found any entries for children on Daniel Tree before his migration to Australia? 


Regards
 
Judy

6
Sussex / Re: Northiam Parish Records-TREE
« on: Tuesday 08 March 16 04:56 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Colin

Griffess' death certificate lists his mother as Elizabeth Ashdown.  As mentioned elsewhere in this blog, Elizabeth Ashdown married William Tree in 1792 in Woodchurch, Tenterden, Kent.  This is very close to Northiam, so I think it's highly likely that these were the parents of Griffess Tree(s).  By the time Griffess was born in 1808 the couple had 6 children.  I have not been able to find a baptism for Griffess, but can think of numerous scenarios for the omission.  William died in 1812 and could have been ill for some time, making it difficult for Elizabeth to organise a baptism for Griffess being one possibility.

Tracking down Elizabeth King's parents I found a bit trickier.  I had quite some help for this from TimAussie, who I think you have also tried to contact.  FamilySearch lists a baptism for Elizabeth King son of James and 'Mary' King in Rye, 24 Feb 1811.  Tim had gone through the films at an LDS library and thought the 'Mary' was a mistake, and that it should have been Sarah.  Looking at the children on James and Sarah it fits, particularly as the witnesses to the marriage of Griffess and Elizabeth were Daniel Tree, Maria King, Martha King, Mary Tree and Frederick King.  James and Sarah had daughters Maria and Mary, and James had a brother Frederick who was nearly 20 years his junior. 

Elizabeth King's brother, James Kelsey King, also came out to Australia, in 1939, and died in Sydney in 1893.

I tried to contact TimAussie some time ago without success.  He may have changed his email address or just stopped researching.  Would be interested to know if you have any response from him.


Regards

Judy

7
Sussex / Re: Northiam Parish Records-TREE
« on: Monday 07 March 16 09:44 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Colin

What info are you looking for in regarding to Griffess?

Did I meet you in LCPL 2 decades ago?


Regards

Judy

8
Sussex / Re: Northiam Parish Records-TREE
« on: Sunday 06 March 16 23:29 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Treehug
When looking for Daniel Tree in the English records, do not include the middle name.  Daniel James (born 1852 in SA) was actually the son of Daniel Tree (bap 1798 in Sussex).  The SA records have actually mixed this up a bit, which is where the confusion has occurred.  According to FamilySearch, a Marian Celia Tree was born to Daniel and Mary Tree - baptised in Bethersden, Kent, in 1817.  Daniel Tree and Mary Hodges married a couple of weeks earlier in Bethersden.  I think Daniel (b 1798) and Griffess were related through their fathers, who were first cousins.  A Daniel Tree witnessed the marriage of Griffiths and Elizabeth, which I assume was most likely this Daniel.  It's really unfortunate that none of the records mention the name of the Daniel's wife.  It's also possible his first wife died and he married again, then had Adeline and Edwin (both born in the 1830s in England).  Or children born between Mary Ann and Adeline died or didn't want to come to Australia.
Hope this helps.
Judy

9
Sussex / Re: Northiam Parish Records-TREE
« on: Saturday 28 April 12 09:32 BST (UK)  »
Griffess Trees' death certificate lists his mother's name as Elizabeth Ashdown (unknown father).  Elizabeth Ashdown married William Tree in Woodchurch, Tenterden, Kent (about 12 miles from Northiam) in 1792 according to the Mid-Kent Marriages website.  William and Elizabeth baptised 5 children between 1793 and 1806 in Northiam, but Griffess (born 3 Sep 1808 according to his obituary) either wasn't baptised, was baptised elsewhere or the record has been missed/lost.  A William Tree (aged 40) was buried in Northiam in 1812, so this is most likely Griffess' father.  Elizabeth Tree (widow) married Richard Hicks in Northiam in 1813, presumably for help supporting the 6 children.  Have not been able to determine exactly what happened to Elizabeth Ashdown after this.

Hope this helps. 

Regards
Judy

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