RootsChat.Com

To hoobaloo, japeflakes, Trishanne, alan m, Loord74,
Wow!  It is such a privilege to have access to all your expertise.  Many thanks for making such a dramatic improvement.  The photo had held pride of place on my mother-in-law's dressing-table for years, hence the fading.  The family name is Sandman, location Wirrall.  We have decided to make the presentation of your results to my sister-in-law into a highlight of the reunion.
Once again, many thanks.

Frank

Hello,
My wife's family name is Sandman and we have traced her line to Rotenburg(Wumme).  We are now driving in Europe and we shall visit the area at the end of June.  We hope to find some records and take some photos of the locations in which her ancestors lived.  Is there anyone who can advise us on how to proceed?  In particular, we are hoping to find a local family history addict who can talk to us (in English, please) about the area and its records.  Any further thoughts from the forum most gratefully welcomed.
Frank

Hello John,
Thanks for your kind words.

Have you seen this site:

http://genforum.genealogy.com/bithell/

I think I remember that you will find some of the posts there (especially from Pamela) are very relevent to the line you mention.

I am not yet aiming to broaden my searches into those further parts of my tree, but if/when I do I shall come back to you.

Regards

Frank

Hiya Frank ...CPRDb is down at the moment..it has a server fault...they say it should be up and running on Wednesday 18th August....allan

Thanks Allan,
I've just tried CPR (now running OK) and it would appear that there are not yet any records for St Oswalds parish.
Frank

Hello Linda and John,

I've just been reading through this thread and can add the following comments, in the hope that they will be helpful.

I do have copies of the Convict documents from Tasmania.  I believe that the death record of Richard Bethel in 1862 is in fact the Richard Bithell who arrived there as a convict in 1853.  Unfortunately, there is not enough information to tie them together fully.

The same problem occurs when linking Richard Bithell who married Mary Jones in Hawarden in 1820 to the Richard Bithill shown as the father of William in the parish register in Chester in 1821.  So far I cannot find a documented link, and have eventually come to the conclusion that they must be the same person (if only because I cannot find any other Bithells to fit).  When I visited the area to go to the record offices it is very clear that it is a fairly short journey (by road or by river) from Hawarden to Chester.  There is also interesting support from the fact that the witnesses at the marriage of Richard and Mary in Hawarden in 1820 included Richard Jenkins, and when he in turn was married in Chester in St. John's parish on June 23rd 1821, to a Mary Bithell, a witness was Richard Bithell (he had a sister named Mary, born 1799).  It gives me the feeling that they had all moved to Chester, where William was baptised in October 1821.

Similarly, there is no clear documentary link between Richard Bithell, father of William in 1821, and Richard Bithell found guilty of twice stealing pig iron in 1848 and 1850.  The absence of others of that name and age encourages the theory that they are the same person.  The convict also stated that he had one child and I have not been able to find any siblings for William.

I wrote the Bithell Family Narrative in order to get the chronology clear in my head, and then decided to publish it in the hope that others who were interested in this line would be able to confirm, or to destroy, these "iffy" connections.  I'm therefore delighted to find that there are others looking at this thread and I hope that eventually more evidence will be uncovered.  Keeping this thread alive will be a good point of focus.

Looking forward to any responses.

Frank