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Messages - PaulSlo

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1
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Sunday 10 February 13 00:32 GMT (UK)  »
Oops. Sorry, Hector married Helen in 1830 (as I said in a previous post) not 1833.
     I think that James Reid - Euphemia's dad was married to someone called Beveridge. Maybe Gary can confirm that.
     I'll do the regimental thing next time.
     Paul.
       

2
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Saturday 09 February 13 01:15 GMT (UK)  »
I couldn't upload the stuff, so I'll have to enter the regimental record by hand, next time.
             Paul

3
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Saturday 09 February 13 01:08 GMT (UK)  »
I forgot where I found the John info. It may be wrong.
         Anyway, Hector Mackenzie. Hector is a common Mackenzie clan name. His discharge paper says he was born at Lochbroom in Rosshire. Lochbroom is a former Parish on the seawater Loch Broom - on the opposite side from Ullapool. However, his paper also mentions the town of Tain - which is nowhere near Loch Broom. However, it is near Urray - a settlement near the Black Isle - a peninsula in the Moray Firth which is the ancestral home of the Mackenzie clan. A hector was born to Donald and Margaret mackenzie on 4th April 1772 - and he is the only one who fits our Hector. Two Donald Mackenzies were born in the same parish in 1739 - so one of them  was probably Hector's dad.
         In December 1794, Hector joined the 133rd Foot - a recruiting regiment. He was then assigned to the 42nd Highland Regiment - the famous 'Black Watch'. This is odd, as there was already a mackenzie regiment in the army - the Seaforth Highlanders, who actually wore the mackenzie tartan. The discharge paper shows he served 283 days in the West Indies, which means he saw action against the french at St' Lucia and St. Vincent.
        I'm now just repeating the stuff Gary's amazing research has turned up... Suffice it to say, hector was invalided out of the army in 1816, after receiving a would in the side - probably at the Battle of Toulouse in 1814. His papers describe him as 5'7", with fair hair and fair complexion, and blue eyes.
       After leaving the army, he ended up working as a porter in Aberdeen, where he married Helen Monro in 1833, at the age of 58. She was the daughter of James Monro - 'coffee merchant's labourer'. he eventually drew his army pension, and died of 'infirmity' at Aberdeen in 1847. I will try to attach the copy of his discharge paper, and the regimental record for the Black Watch during Hector's time in it. It's likely that Hector was at all the places listed. Congratualtions to Gary for uncovering this stuff. One aside - from me - is that in the 1745 Jacobite rebellion, the Mackenzie clan had divided loyalty. The rebel faction actually laid waste to Monro clan territories, and burned Foulis castle

4
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Saturday 26 January 13 01:32 GMT (UK)  »
The Mackenzie story.
             After a wretchedly long deferral, I shall now add some material researched by Gary concerning the origins of our Great Grandma (or whatever) Margaret Jane Mackenzie. It will come in two parts. First....
             Margaret's Grandad was Hector Mackenzie who was born in 1772 in the Scottish highlands. The next entry will give his story in detail. Suffice it say now he was a professional soldier who fought in the Napoleonic wars.He was discharged from the army in 1816, and became a labourer, and then a porter.
            On the 4th February 1830 in Aberdeen - at the age of 58! - he married Helen Monro, who was born in Tarbet, Rosshire. They had their first child  John on 8th July 1833. Hector eventually received an army pension, and died in Aberdeen, being buried on July 5th 1847.
             John Mackenzie became a bootmaker. He married Euphemia Reid - daughter of James Reid (a miner) at Dalkeith in Midlothian on 22nd October 1853. In the 1861 census, John, Euphemia, and their children Helen(6), Grace (4), Jemima (1), and Grandma Helen were living at 9 Charles Court in Aberdeen. Grandma Helen died on May 21st in the same year at the age of 58.
             During the late 1860's the family moved to the Biker area of Newcastle where a son called John was born. In the 1871 census Euphemia and the children (minus Grace, who must have died) were living at 62 Smithies Street in Leeds. Obviously there were family 'issues' insofar as the father John was not living with them. It gets worse !(What follows next may have been posted before, but I'll repeat it now).
             In the 1881 census, Euphemia (aka 'Jane Reed') was in Wakefield prison. She was convicted of stealing a pair of boots, and sentenced to 3 months 'hard labour' on March 31st at Dewsbury, and was released on June 22nd. This seems not to have been her first conviction. Her prison record describes her as 5'1", with brown hair, with a scar on her forehead and right arm, and able to read. During this time, Margaret was living at Stocksbank, Mirfield, caring for her siblings Euphemia and John. There was also a girl lodging with them.
            Euphemia died on August 6th 1885 after falling out of a bedroom window at 10 Stainburn Square 'whilst in a state of intoxication' (according to the death certificate).Clearly The Old House at Home may have much to answer for...
            John Mackenzie senior died on 23rd May 1899, at 31 East Street. Interestingly, the death was registered by Margaret, who was with him at the time of death.
            So what do we make of this? At the time of his death John had another family, but Margaret still cared enough to be there. Did he leave because of Euphemia's obviously 'wayward' nature or what? But whatever the case, he stayed in the same area as his estranged family. A mystery....
            Gary's researching of all this has been truly amazing ! We owe him a big vote of thanks. As I said earlier, in the next post I'll enter the story of Hector Mackenzie. Watch this space !
            But I'll end with a strange little note. In previous posts I've mentioned our Finnish/Siberian ancestry - which extends further into Mongolia and China. As a child I was always obsessed by northern Russia and Mongolia - I even had areas where I played in Belle Isle which I designated by names like Noyava Zemlya (which is an island in arctic Russia) and inner and outer Mongolia. This is a curious kind of genetic echo. But equally odd is that I have been interviewed (unsuccessfully) twice for jobs in Aberdeen, and once for a job in Dalkeith - places where the Mackenzies and Reids did live and marry. Weird I calls it !

5
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Monday 21 January 13 01:10 GMT (UK)  »
Dear All,
             Small genetic updates. It seems that about 2000 years ago our ancestors were in the Karelia area - split between Finland and Russia. I hope for more info on this.
             I have 3% Neanderthal, and 2.3% Denisovan genetic material - which means that all the Crowther males on this thread do too ! The 3% Neanderthal  is frequent in Europeans. The Denisovans - in case you didn't khow - are another branch of the hominid family whose existence was discovered in 2010. They lived in east Asia (some New Guineans and Melanesians have up to 6% Denisovan in them). Our ancestor(s) interbred with them as they moved through China and Mongolia into Siberia. (The Denisovan bone fragment from which their dna was recognized, was found in the Denisova cave in Siberia.)
             I hope to be able to do something about restoring the collapsed Crowther gravestone in Beckett Street cemetery, soon. Will keep you all informed.
             Best wishes,
             Paul

6
Travelling People / In search of Stainburn Square...
« on: Tuesday 27 December 11 01:16 GMT (UK)  »
Dear All,
              Sorry for the cryptic message above. I didn't realize that not only the image I was wanting to post but the message itself hadn't been posted.
               Anyway, here's a bit of the Pettingell and Brownlow Thompson aerial map of Leeds from 1886. I assumed that they imagined it from lots of sketches etc. There are many inaccuracies in it (some quite spectacular). However, I've put  a yellow blob to the right of the gasometer - which is where the Square ought to be. I've put another small blob a bit higher up - to the right of which is the approximate site of Mabgate Fold
               I'm also posting a photo from the Leodis website that Gary has just sent me. Stainburn Square is definitely in this. It's the reverse L shaped building (with another building enclosed within the L) to the immediate right of the gasometer that is pointed out by the grey arrow.
                Next time, I'll post some of the fascinating details that Gary has uncovered about the Mackenzies, and, for light relief, an indication of where our ancestors were 1990 years ago.
               Best wishes for the new year to everyone !!!
               Paul

7
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Saturday 24 December 11 21:38 GMT (UK)  »
Sorry, the image I wanted to post exceeds the limit. So I;m afraid it's all down to your imaginations...
                Best wishes,
                  Paul

8
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Friday 23 September 11 22:09 BST (UK)  »
This just a belated thanks to Ben for organizing the get together in July in Mabgate. It was great to see so many people.
       The only new developments have been some amazing work by Gary on the Mackenzie side of the family. If he doesn't mind, I can post the most interesting facts about it, soon. These will be relevant to Terry and Joe Crowther, as well as myself and Gary.
       Regards to all,
       Paul

9
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Monday 21 February 11 01:12 GMT (UK)  »
A small point. There's often interesting info buried between the line in facts one already has.
    I notice that in the baptismal entry for Benjamin Crowther at Birstall Parish Church in 1795 (which Gary again provided)his dad William is listed as  of 'Birstall' whereas as other entries on the same page involve fathers living at other places in the area. This makes it solid that our forebears were from the intersection of Birstall, Scholes, Cleckheaton, and Drub. I wonder if they supplemented their clothwork with a bit of small-scale farming - in which case they might be on a land registry somewhere.
     I notice also that one of Benjamin's children - Hannah - was able to write her name on her marriage certificate (again provided to me by Gary, ages ago). The fact that she could write means of course  that she was taught by someone. It's not really feasible that anyone outside the family would have done this. So it must have been Benjamin who taught her.
    This tells us that Benjamin valued literacy. Maybe he tried to teach the others, but was only successful with her.

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