1
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin
« on: Sunday 22 December 24 13:11 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Bookbox! Especially pointing me to perplexity.ai. Merry Xmas! Peter
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2
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Help with Latin
« on: Saturday 21 December 24 12:01 GMT (UK) »
Not sure if this is the right forum but I was hoping some latin scholars would help me with this charter.
I have copied this transcript from Ashemole's Ant. of Bershire vol. 3.
Omnibus Christi fidelibus praesens scriptum visuris vel audituris, Henricus permissione Divina Abbas Cirencestrensis, & ejusdem loci Conventus, salutem in Domino, Noverit Universitas vestra nos concessisse. Johan. de Latton & Isabelle Uxori, ejusdem sub forma & conditione que sequitur subscripta, viz. Qualibet hebdomada, quemdiu vixerint simul, quatuor decem albos coronerios & novem Gallonas cerevisie, scil. quinque Gallonas cerevisie Conventualis, & quatuor de cerevisia Capellanorum & annum ferculum qualibet die de Coquina nostra, sicut libere sevientes in die recipiunt de domo nostra, percipiend. itaque si dict. Isabella diutius supervixerit, statim post mortem dict. Joh. medietas omnium superius concessorum totaliter cessabit. Et pro dicta consessione predict. Joh. nobis Ecclesie & nostre totaliter remisit & de se & heredibus suis in perpetuam quietem, clamavit totum jus & clamium quod habuit vel aliquo mode habere potuit, cum reversione quacunque in terris & tenementis cum omnibus pertinenciis suis quas Gualterus, Pater predict. Johan. de nobis assignatas tenuit in Latton,& dictus Johan. & heredes sui dictas terra & tenementa nobis & Ecclesie nostre ſine deminutione quacunque plene & integre warrantizabunt. Et si contiget (quod absit) predictos Johanem & Isabellam a predict. warrantia quequo modo deficere, vel in dict. tenementis aliquod juris vel clamii clamare seu vindicare, ex tunc, dicti Abbas & Conventus a prestatione omni premissarum absque calumpnia cuiuslibet omnino cessabunt in perpetuum. In cujus rei Testimonium partes predict. huic script. indentato sigilla sua alternatim apposuerunt. Dat. Cirencestrie in Fest. Purific. Beat. Marie, An. Regn. Regis Edw. Fil. Henr. tricessim. tertio.
Am I right in thinking it is dated Feast of the Purification of the blessed Mary in the 33rd year of Edward son of Henry or is it 30th year of Edw son of Henry III?
My other question is regarding the agreement: who is supplying the beer and food etc in exchange for right to use land etc, the Abbey of Cirencester or John and Isabelle?
Thanks, Peter
I have copied this transcript from Ashemole's Ant. of Bershire vol. 3.
Omnibus Christi fidelibus praesens scriptum visuris vel audituris, Henricus permissione Divina Abbas Cirencestrensis, & ejusdem loci Conventus, salutem in Domino, Noverit Universitas vestra nos concessisse. Johan. de Latton & Isabelle Uxori, ejusdem sub forma & conditione que sequitur subscripta, viz. Qualibet hebdomada, quemdiu vixerint simul, quatuor decem albos coronerios & novem Gallonas cerevisie, scil. quinque Gallonas cerevisie Conventualis, & quatuor de cerevisia Capellanorum & annum ferculum qualibet die de Coquina nostra, sicut libere sevientes in die recipiunt de domo nostra, percipiend. itaque si dict. Isabella diutius supervixerit, statim post mortem dict. Joh. medietas omnium superius concessorum totaliter cessabit. Et pro dicta consessione predict. Joh. nobis Ecclesie & nostre totaliter remisit & de se & heredibus suis in perpetuam quietem, clamavit totum jus & clamium quod habuit vel aliquo mode habere potuit, cum reversione quacunque in terris & tenementis cum omnibus pertinenciis suis quas Gualterus, Pater predict. Johan. de nobis assignatas tenuit in Latton,& dictus Johan. & heredes sui dictas terra & tenementa nobis & Ecclesie nostre ſine deminutione quacunque plene & integre warrantizabunt. Et si contiget (quod absit) predictos Johanem & Isabellam a predict. warrantia quequo modo deficere, vel in dict. tenementis aliquod juris vel clamii clamare seu vindicare, ex tunc, dicti Abbas & Conventus a prestatione omni premissarum absque calumpnia cuiuslibet omnino cessabunt in perpetuum. In cujus rei Testimonium partes predict. huic script. indentato sigilla sua alternatim apposuerunt. Dat. Cirencestrie in Fest. Purific. Beat. Marie, An. Regn. Regis Edw. Fil. Henr. tricessim. tertio.
Am I right in thinking it is dated Feast of the Purification of the blessed Mary in the 33rd year of Edward son of Henry or is it 30th year of Edw son of Henry III?
My other question is regarding the agreement: who is supplying the beer and food etc in exchange for right to use land etc, the Abbey of Cirencester or John and Isabelle?
Thanks, Peter
3
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with another latin probate
« on: Thursday 19 December 24 14:34 GMT (UK) »
Thanks guys for your replies. Most helpful. Peter
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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with another latin probate
« on: Wednesday 18 December 24 23:34 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much again. I would appreciate a translation please as it is not clear to me who actually administered the will as it seems to me the executors all renounced executorships. Thanks again, Peter
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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Help with another latin probate
« on: Wednesday 18 December 24 14:43 GMT (UK) »
Could some kind person help me with some words and expansions in this probate. I have had a stab but I have little to no latin. Thanks, Peter
Quinto die mensis Maij Anno Domini mill[es]imo quingentesimo octogesimo quinto emanauit com[m]issio
Elizabethe Latton alias Alexander sorari naturali Anne Latton nup[er] de Chilton in Com[itus] Berk et Joh[an]i
Latton prox[imo] consanguinto dicte Anne defuncti heutes? etc Ad administrand bona inra? et credita ^h[iuis]mo[d]i inxta tenorem
huius testamenti etc In p[er]sona Stephi Staple notarij publici procuratoris ??ru[m] etc Jurat pro eo q[uod] execut[or]?
in eodem testamenta nominat oneri execucionis dic[t]i test[ament]i expresse renu[n]ciaru[n]t / L??ris administracio bonorum Dicte
al?? xxvio Novembr[er] ult[isimo] elapso Anne Halliwell comiss[is] ista die renu[n]ciat ut ex actis liquet.
Quinto die mensis Maij Anno Domini mill[es]imo quingentesimo octogesimo quinto emanauit com[m]issio
Elizabethe Latton alias Alexander sorari naturali Anne Latton nup[er] de Chilton in Com[itus] Berk et Joh[an]i
Latton prox[imo] consanguinto dicte Anne defuncti heutes? etc Ad administrand bona inra? et credita ^h[iuis]mo[d]i inxta tenorem
huius testamenti etc In p[er]sona Stephi Staple notarij publici procuratoris ??ru[m] etc Jurat pro eo q[uod] execut[or]?
in eodem testamenta nominat oneri execucionis dic[t]i test[ament]i expresse renu[n]ciaru[n]t / L??ris administracio bonorum Dicte
al?? xxvio Novembr[er] ult[isimo] elapso Anne Halliwell comiss[is] ista die renu[n]ciat ut ex actis liquet.
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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help needed with latin probate
« on: Monday 25 November 24 23:59 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much 
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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Help needed with latin probate
« on: Monday 25 November 24 12:08 GMT (UK) »
Could someone please help me with this latin probate. I have had a stab at it. But some of the contractions I am really unsure of. The two in the second line after nominati beginning with "p" and the two after notarij in line 3.
Thanks, Peter
Probatum fuit testamentum suprascripti defuncti h[ab]entis etc Cora[m] D[omi]no Apud Lamehith xiijto die mensis Marcij Anno D'ni mill[esim]o qu[in]gentesimo xixo Jur[ament] Joh[an]is Tregian executoris in h[iui]mo[di] test[ament]o no[m]i[n]ati p[er]fate p? et M[ar]garthe
relicte et executrices etia[m] in h[iui]mo[di] test[ament]o no[m]i[n]ate In p[er]sona [memorandum] Joh[an]is Tallareu[m]? notarij pu[bli]ci? p[ro]curatoris sui in hac p[ar]ti etc Ac Approbatu[m] et insinatu[m] etc Et comissa fuit admi[ni]stracio om[ium] et singulorum bonorum et debitorum dicti defuncti prefatis executoribus de b[e]n[e] et fidel[it]er adm[ini]strand
Thanks, Peter
Probatum fuit testamentum suprascripti defuncti h[ab]entis etc Cora[m] D[omi]no Apud Lamehith xiijto die mensis Marcij Anno D'ni mill[esim]o qu[in]gentesimo xixo Jur[ament] Joh[an]is Tregian executoris in h[iui]mo[di] test[ament]o no[m]i[n]ati p[er]fate p? et M[ar]garthe
relicte et executrices etia[m] in h[iui]mo[di] test[ament]o no[m]i[n]ate In p[er]sona [memorandum] Joh[an]is Tallareu[m]? notarij pu[bli]ci? p[ro]curatoris sui in hac p[ar]ti etc Ac Approbatu[m] et insinatu[m] etc Et comissa fuit admi[ni]stracio om[ium] et singulorum bonorum et debitorum dicti defuncti prefatis executoribus de b[e]n[e] et fidel[it]er adm[ini]strand
- etc Ac de pleno et fideli Inventario cit[ra] festrum penthecostes prox[ima] futur[a] exhibendi Necno[n] de plano et vero compoto reddend Ad santo dei ev[an]gelia in debita Juris forma Jurat[e] / petro alterio executore tunt? mortuo
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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help needed with latin will
« on: Wednesday 22 May 24 15:53 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the reply, Bookbox
No, the only John Lovelas previously mentioned in the whole will is the testator himself, which leads me to think the "said John Lovelas" is the testator himself.
I am wondering if anyone else has come across something similar before?
No, the only John Lovelas previously mentioned in the whole will is the testator himself, which leads me to think the "said John Lovelas" is the testator himself.
I am wondering if anyone else has come across something similar before?
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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help needed with latin will
« on: Tuesday 21 May 24 23:11 BST (UK) »
Thank you Book Box! That helps enormously.
Based on the transcription, is the testator John Lovelas referring to himself when he refers to "said John Lovelas heir and son of Richard" or another John Lovelas? Would appreciate people's thoughts.
Thanks Peter
Based on the transcription, is the testator John Lovelas referring to himself when he refers to "said John Lovelas heir and son of Richard" or another John Lovelas? Would appreciate people's thoughts.
Thanks Peter