RootsChat.Com

Hi there,

Ann was born in 1809.... not sure where. and married in 1829 in London.

That's about all I know. Just thought that both arriving in SA, as families did given the structure of the immigration program that they could have been connected. Is always possible they w ere cousins I suppose. Families who were connected did come out about the same time- at the settlement and proclamation of SA. They were all free settlers.
Am Just trying to find info about the Jacques and as I have found in other cases- family names keep popping up which are inextricably linked!

Hi Duckweed  Gosh it can be such a web of intrigue at times!!! 
Am trying to process too much information!!! And if I step into another part of the family, find more links and intrigue!!!

Talk about getting  bogged down. What I find most confusing at times is when they have the same name- for example I noted two Robert Kemps... one born 1812 and the other born 1838 who married Angelina.There were obviously also two or more Charles Kemps.

For example :The Robert 1812 who appeared on a census 1841 aged 29 had father Joseph b 1778 aged 63, Mary wife  aged 61 b 1780; Malin aged 32 b 1809, Robert 1812 and Henry . 22 b 1818 ( a butcher).

( I noted than the name Malin appeared again in another census as a child of someone....and being such an unusual name must have had a connection but I didn't print if off or note it as I was trying not to stray to far and wide away from the task at hand and get bogged down. I can't recall what census it was now but when i join up again will have to take a look! I think from memory that this Malin listed above married as well and had kids in a later census even though in the 1841 census he was still residing with the parents! Maybe he married late.

This is very interesting about 25 Portman Square and Sarah Jacques as a servant. And just how she  ( perhaps family) comes to be associated with Charles Kemp- although it makes sense that it could be by association through employment but I don't envisage a valet chatting up a female servant in those times???.
The notes that a cousin had in her file had her her being employed at 95 Gloucester Place, Portman Square. After all there were a few misprints. So, that could be an error or then again she may have worked in more than one place who knows.
I had a look yesterday at Portman Square area 1800s and it seems as you say, very upmarket where all the Earls and Barons lived- didn't hit on no 25 though.

I wasn't aware of the Charles Kemp not being on the 1841 census in St James Place London and 1851 in Belvoir castle. The only one I sighted him on- whatever that was as I didn't take much note given he wasn't linked at that time to Mary - but I do recall this Charles as as valet just no particulars.

It is always possible as well that there is a double link between Jarvises and Kemps- like an early one and a later one- has happened in some of my family here through marriages- siblings and the like .

More interesting is who was this Sarah Jacques if she is connected to Charles Kemp and how....and who was her family exactly and what connection did they have to the Kemps?? Where did she originate and whether her parents always resided London or came from Nottingham or somewhere.
The Thorseby Park sets a common place  but now am wondering what the commonality is.. although if her parents married and lived in Marylebone and Charles was working in St James Place London in 1841, perhaps they had links through the people where they worked or perhaps Charles knew Sarah's father through his work or perhaps the Kemps in Thorseby had connections with the Earl of Manvers and his lot?

I found some Jacques in Leicester on censuses but none seemed to fit directly, although I thought at the time they could be possibly related- like cousins. Also one fellow I connected with thru Genes Reunited some time , who resides near Sheffield ( Connisborough?) said it is possible but didn't have any info on a Sarah in his tree. He had a Sarah Whitaker ( brother James?? from whom he stems)  in his lineage born abt the same time in relation to Sarah Whitaker ( who married a Robert Jacques Marylebone 1808) and supposedly had our Sarah).

Tis like a huge jigsaw.
Did you happen to find anything about the Kemps pre 1800 from Tickhill-George Kemp b 1781 and wife Ruth that turned up on the censuses- John b 1801, and Mary 1799. I didn't find too many Kemps born Tickhill prior to 1800 in the 1841 and 1851 censuses. I think I need to create some sort of summary sheet and any info I find re those with same name - to put it on it!!
If Charles Kemp was born Thorseby.  I wonder if or how the Tickhill Kemps are linked other than through the Castle?

Kemps live in the same neighbourhood in Tickhill as George and Hannah Teasdale; Charles from Thorseby works at the Castle along with George T and, married to sister , Mary, of  wife Hannah. Charles sister, Lucy Kemp also a servant to a Lady Lowther in Gloucester Square. Sarah Jacques would then know the daughter Mary Leticia Eyre, ( about the same age???)who is married to the Earl of Manvers as she is working for her father. This Earl comes from Thorseby Park..... so how well does he know the Kemps from Thoresby? How does Sarah meet William- son of George T? Thinking.......thinking...what have we got in common here......horses... groomsman.... valets.... servants... Earls and castles..... At the races? Perhaps The Ascot races??? What a venue ... Ahh pure supposition!!!
Am off to brew up and ponder all this- and mull it over!!!

Bronnie

Hi Duckweed,

Am glad you agrre with my line of thinking that they knew  each other. I workedon the premise that in those days girls just did not go out with just anybody- but that most were family friends and connections. In some instances the parents set up suitors- when the daughter turned 20 0r 21 they would have someone in mind or invite contacts so they could meet potential beaus.
They would be either neighbours or good friends perhaps from a family of good character and reputation. Such as the fathers worked together at the same job.
 What would be good is to find out more about the Jacques but it was even more common a name! Although they all perhaps may have originated from the one or two brothers who emigrated from France. I have seen a Jacques Genealogy Tree- a Louis who went to Canada and from whom a huge line of descendants stemmed but also a Robert and a Guillaume who fled to Scotland. I wouldsay they then moved down into north Yorkshire ( or even Ireland) from there.

Am not sure  ???where to start looking for this lot as I have not been able to confirm births in the UK. Have evenless info on them from the family annuls than from the others. I did find on the Family Search website a birth record for Sarah b 1819 ( parents Robert and Sarah) plus one for a Robert although one had his birthdate as 1807 which couldn't be right as we have it as 1809  from records here which fits in with a marriage of a robert and Sarah nee Whitaker in 1808.  However have drawn a blank with Charlotte, Thomas and William. William  could be a cousin rather than brothers. I am guessing that William was born around 1810 or 1811 as he arrived with Robert in 1836 whereas Thomas arrived a couple of years later in 1838 with Sarah and Robert's wife. Had he been older he would have surely come out with the other men. I  think at the time of arrival  he was a teenager and therefore born about 1821 ( younger than Sarah). Also he was a bit later in marrying ( about 15 years after Robert and about 5 years after Sarah married William T.

I know definitely there  was a Charlotte, ( name appears on marriage certificate); Robert b 1809, William, Sarah and Thomas ( also a witness at the marriage) . All came to Australia in 1836 and 1838.



Anyway, something might turn  up.

Hi Ross,

Like you I am still looking for info on John and Catherine Niblock and have just come across your post. You may recall I contacted you previously.

Unfortunately I keep drawing a blank re Catherine's maiden name and John's father. A marriage certificate might help if there is one. Given Ann the eldest ( my ancestor) was born 1842 I would say John b c 1818 and Catherine were married c 1840/ 41.
So far I have not found any marriage record but have read that many records have been lost in a fire or due to orders to destroy by certain authorities.
I have a sneaking suspicion he was not a potato grower but a flax grower prior to emigrating. Interestingly they were also protestant and not Catholic.
Some of John's relatives may also have emigrated to Canada and US as at that time the population of Ireland halved.

regards

Glen