Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - degenerate

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 8
1
One Name Studies: N to S / Re: P-L-N Genetic Genealogy
« on: Sunday 22 February 26 12:52 GMT (UK)  »

The biggest single patrilineal group now includes :-
  • PALING / PAYLING - Found mostly in Nottinghamshire, England
  • PELAN - originating from Lambeg / Lisburn in 17th century Ireland - most plausibly immigration from England
  • PELIN - found historically in Dublin & Co.s Kildare & Offaly, Ireland since the 16th century (but now died out in Dublin)
  • PALIN - likely been in the US since British colonial times - Province of Carolina - closest match to Lisburn Pelans
Plus three variants from descendants of the Lisburn Pelans...
    PALEN - North America
    PELLING - Scotland
    PALAN - North America

The estimated most recent common ancestor live around 1400AD but we don't know where.

Currently seeking :- PELAN, PEELING, PELLING, PEALING, PELING, PALLIN from across Britain and Ireland or descendants thereof.  Dutch and French variants are also welcome.

Y-DNA research related material is being placed on this website: https://ydna.me/pln/

2
The Common Room / Re: A major new AI capability
« on: Saturday 07 February 26 16:21 GMT (UK)  »
I have often found 2 cousins of the same name, and similar ages. Can lead to confusion.

Sure, that happens all the time. The distinction that I'm pointing out here is that a very rare name has been seen to lead the unwary (or AI) to rule out any consideration for it being the wrong person. It is judged a virtual impossibility for it to be anything other than one person. The naïve assessment of rarity is flawed because they are blind to the prospect of correlation with prior (unseen or undocumented) generations.

3
The Common Room / Re: A major new AI capability
« on: Saturday 07 February 26 15:31 GMT (UK)  »
Passenger lists before 1900 can contain pretty basic info and not enough to ID a person even with a less common name. So you could descend from a "William Taylor" who emigrated to Australia in about 1855, and the AI could come up with a likely candidate for 1855, aged 25. And all is given is William Taylor, aged 25, from England, so could be any William Taylor. If the person's ancestor was called Marmaduke Bracegirdle, then it probably is the right person.  ;D

A name and age, as you say, are not unique pairings but people happily adopt those records when in need. On top of this is "survivor bias" which afflicts genealogy more generally, i.e. your research tends to be biased by the things you can find. AI has that baked-in in spades.

I often operate close to the 'Marmaduke Bracegirdle' rarity of names but that brings with it another bias. As people perceive a name to be exceedingly rare, they don't question it at all when they find it - it must be the same person. So what we might find is that Marmaduke was a notable family figure in the 18th century and that his name has been propagated down the generations sporadically, such that you'll find distant cousins of the same name, of similar age and similar birth location. The naïve genealogist wades in and conflates these cousins as a singular identity.

I have encountered a couple of instances where people have conflated distinct people with relatively rare names, where one was a victim of WW1 and the other not. A date-of-death is entered and that line extinguished - job done. Whereas in reality the chap is alive and well in Tooting in the 1950s.

4
The Common Room / Re: A major new AI capability
« on: Saturday 07 February 26 13:26 GMT (UK)  »
An 'historical society' in an area where I have some genealogical dealings, found a reference to a particular woman. They had no idea who she was, so one of their number evidently used ChatGPT or equivalent and prompted it to find a connection between the name and the locality, which it did.  It contrived a match between a one-time landowner and a distant relative but caveated it that it was speculative. The caveat went out the window and they deemed this as a proclamation of the Oracle.

I did warn them this identification was highly flawed (for a number of easily verifiable reasons and also pointed to previous research that someone else had done 30 years ago) but they weren't having it and politely told me to shove it. These are adult people that should know better but they are beholden to the new AI overlords without understanding how it works and what the limitations are.  I don't know if they ever did retract or caveat this identification but I've left them to it.

5
Norfolk / Seeking Norfolk Y-DNA - PEELING / PEALING / PEEL / PEELE etc.
« on: Saturday 07 February 26 09:38 GMT (UK)  »
Hello,

I've been running a Y-DNA surname project for a long time and am struggling to get any Norfolk representation. Looking for male bearers of the surnames PEELING / PEALING / PEEL / PILE/PYLE etc. including known or suspected variants, with a bone fide Norfolk patrilineal pedigree.  You don't have to live in the region now but just have a reliable family tree (without known or suspected adoptions) along the purely paternal line.  I can also try to help you with your tree if needed.
Funding may be available.

Those who don't know their origins with much certainty are also encouraged to join, but I need two or more verified bearers of each name to establish the Y-DNA baseline(s) for the region.

NB If you have already tested with Ancestry, then that can provide some information on your Y-DNA but you will need to transfer your results to FTDNA and pay a modest 'unlock' fee for the analysis.

  https://help.familytreedna.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402392808463-Transferring-Your-Autosomal-DNA-From-Another-Company
 
Historically, the PEELINGs seem to be concentrated between Fakenham and Dereham - e.g. Stanfield, Mileham, Great Ryburgh etc. but I mention this mostly for the benefit of people using search engines.

   https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/pelan/about/background

On a related note, I am participating in a campaign to drive the uptake of Y-DNA testing in the Fenlands.  I would particularly encourage male bearers of rare or unusual names to get Y-DNA tested. Thanks.

   https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rare-family-names-uk-ireland/about

6
One Name Studies: N to S / Re: P-L-N Genetic Genealogy
« on: Friday 09 August 24 09:46 BST (UK)  »
Latest result from a PALIN in the USA who is descended from PALINs in the colonial Province of Carolina. They turn out to be from the PELAN / PALING Y-DNA group. I am currently testing them to Y-700 in an attempt to resolve the time-line which might indicate if they came via Ireland or direct from England.

I would add that if you are thinking about getting Y-DNA tested, for this project or any other, please don't take too long thinking about it as the opportunity might pass (in the 15+ years of this project, a number of candidates and prospective candidates have passed away and I am all too conscious that I might also). Your contribution might be absolutely vital especially if you do not have any sons or other male-line relatives.

I am extremely grateful to all those who have contributed their Y-DNA and those that might have helped persuade them.

7
Nottinghamshire / Re: Paling / Pailing / Payling / Palin
« on: Sunday 03 March 24 10:01 GMT (UK)  »
I'm just bumping this message, almost 14 years later, as we are very keen to have more candidates to be DNA tested. We need males bearing a relevant surname - PALIN/PAYLING/PALING/PAILING - with an established patrilineal connection to Nottinghamshire. Suitable bone fide candidates may qualify for a free DNA test (e.g. FTDNA Y-111 or Y-700).

We are also interested in people that have similar ancestry but don't bear this surname, as we may be able to make good inferences from autosomal results, even if very distant.  If you have already been DNA tested it would be useful to know on what platform (e.g. FTDNA, 23andMe, Ancestry, MyHeritiage) and if you have a GedMatch ID.

Many thanks.

  https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/pelan/about


8
I don't know how far you got with this but my son in law's name isn't that common but whether it could be classed as rare is another matter.  However his YDNA is T so he is kind of rare, he is Crew and doesn't even have any YDNA 12 matches.  It's under manual review so who knows someone may come in from 'left of the field'.

Please feel free to join if there is no other suitable Y-DNA surname project.

9
I suspect that TNA possibly don't have enough staff to be able to cope with redactions and are just applying this blanket 115 year rule to avoid the issue.

Exactly, which is why I made the very same point earlier. Blanket rules are a result of resource constraints and the time limit applied is a result of the risk analysis (which would have been agreed by the MOD and TNA with full legal advice from both sides). 

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 8