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reply part 2
Cecilia Speer d 18 Aug 1863 Kingston, Sry, bur 25 Aug 1863 Brompton Cemetery
The Morning Chronicle 7 Dec 1825  On Monday, 5th inst, at St Margaret's Westminster by the Rev William Johnson Rodber, Hannibal Sandys jun Esq of Great Queen Street, Westminster, to Cecilia 4th dau of Wm Speer, Esq of Weston,Surrey

Wilfred Speer d 25 Oct 1856 TD, bur Oct 1856 Woking, Sry.  Married Sarah Speer 26 Aug 1830 St Margaret.   (Sarah b c 1799 London, d 10 Nov 1865 Worthing, Ssx, bur Nov 1865 Woking, Sry)

re his wife Sarah =  her  birth may be one of these although various census records indicate a birth year of 1806 or 1811.  Said to be aged 66 when she died
*  St Dunstan in the East - Sarah Speer dau of Robert Speer and Amey, born 13 Aug, bp 27th 1799
*  St Mary at Lambeth - Sarah Speer dau of Daniel and Ann Speer, bp 23 Nov 1800
Morning Post, 14 Nov 1865  On 10th inst at Worthing, Sarah, widow of the Rev W Speer of West End Lodge, Thames Ditton, Surrey


Adelin Speer

Eleanor Speer - have no record of a death for her between 1803-1811.  Census records for 1841, 1861, 1871 all indicate birth year of 1811 - I can find no bp for her at St Margaret around 1811.  Eleanor Dancer d 22 October 1880 Battle, Ssx.  Married William Dancer in 1855 at Wandsworth.  No children.  (age given for Eleanor in 1861 and 1871 census indicates birth year 1811 but when she died in 1880 her age was given as 77 indicating birth year 1803 - I wonder whether there was only one Eleanor and she put her age down for the census because she was older than her husband.
Hastings and St  Leonards Observer (Sussex) 30 October 1880.  Died Oct 22 at Battle, Eleanor, widow of the late W Dancer and last surviving dau of the late William Speer of Thames Ditton and Park Prospect, Westminster, aged 77 years

Wilhelm Speer d 4 Mar 1857 West Hill, Dartford, Ken;  married Mary Taylor 1853
London Times, 12 Mar 1857 On Wednesday, 4th inst, at his residence West Hill, Dartford, Captain Wilhelm Speer, late of Her Majesty's 71st Light Infantry

Constance Speer b 11 Apr 1806, bp 10 May 1806 St Margaret, d 13 September 1865 Hailsham, Ssx (spinster)  census records variously give her birth date as 1806, 1809, 1812
Evening Mail (London) 25 Sep 1865  Died 13th inst Miss Constance Speer of Hailsham, Sussex, aged 60
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The letter from John Litchfield in 1964 to ?I think the local historical society says William Speer and Mary Jellico had 19 children - 16 of them in 16 years.  He may have been guessing the number because it was such a big family and/or he may have included other Speer family members who may have been cousins and not children of William Speer and Mary nee Jellico. 
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I have also found bur at St Margaret's for two girls, but can find no corresponding bp (perhaps they weren't bp), and can't slot them into the rapidly-reproducing family of William Speer and the perpetually pregnant Mary Jellico - perhaps they belong to a cousin of William Speer (he had no brother)

Lucy Speer bur 26 Aug 1795
Clare Spear bur 6 Oct 1797
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Rev Wilfred Speer and his wife Sarah nee Speer had 3 sons:
William Speer b 20 Jul 1831, bp 1 Sep 1831 St Margaret, bur 19 Jan 1835 TD

Wilfred Dakins Speer b 19 Dec 1833 TD, bp 23 Dec 1833 St Margaret;  d 7 Jun 1867 USA (murdered);  bur 2 Sep 1867 Woking, Sry (bachelor)  Much has been documented about him and the events surrounding his murder. 
Pall Mall Gazette, 3 Sep 1867 The remains of Capt Wilfred Speer who was shot on board the steamer "Octavia" near Fort Buford, Missouri River in Jun last, were yesterday interred in the family vault at the Necropolis, Woking, Surrey.

William Speer b 10 Oct 1836, bp 12 Nov 1835 TD, d 5 Apr 1868 Park Prospect, Westminster, bur Apr 1868 Woking, Sry. (bachelor)
The Morning Post, 8 April 1868 On 5th inst at Park Prospect, Westminster, Wm Speer, Esq of West End Lodge, Thames Ditton, Surrey, aged 33


Genial    Sydney Aus  8 Aug 2017

Thanks for your reply. 

Sorry, no I don't have a cause of death for Hannibal Sandys in 1835.

I didn't know about the 19 children - if it's true, then, Wow ! poor Mary !   I only have nine listed but there are gaps so could well have been others.  In my previous note I gave dates for four of the nine;  the other five I said died unmarried, but certainly survived childhood.  These were:

Eliza Katherine Speer (1789-1859)
Maria Speer (1791-1871)
Frances Speer (1792-1861)
Edward (1793-1859)
Constance (bet 1807-1812 - 1865)


Re the registers of St Margaret's Westminster;  there are limited entries on www.ancestry.co.uk from a few of these parish registers held at LMA, but as you know most of the St Margaret's registers would be at Westminster Archives - I have no access to them from Australia      We visited Thames Ditton briefly in 2010 but didn't get to Westminster Archives. 

After much searching I did find an old map with Park Prospect marked on it - we must have walked past the site several times without realising it was the site of the former Speer home.

I have a copy of the will of William Speer (jr) and I was amused by the newspaper announcement of his death, viz., "by the death of Mr Speer one of the retired chief clerks of the Treasury, a pension of £1700 per annum is saved to the public" (London Times, Friday 12 April 1844) - couldn't say that sort of thing these days I shouldn't think.  Another announcement stated "on 11th inst at Weston, Thames Ditton, Surrey, William Speer, Esq, late of Her Majesty's Treasury, in the 80th year of his age" (The Standard, Saturday, 13 April 1844).

There are a few burials at Thames Ditton for various Speer family members , some of whom I have so far not been able to place;  some may be children of William Speer/Mary Jellico - some of the 19 perhaps

I know William Speer (who d 1844) was son of William Speer and Katherine Wilson who married c 1758 (this info from a summary of documents at Surrey Record Office - another place we didn't have time to visit - but I imagine you've been through the vast quantities of Speer and Litchfield papers held there)

William Speer senior died 1805 and his wife Katherine pre-deceased him, dying in 1780.   I don't know where the Speer family came from but it seems his wife's family had originally owned the Park Prospect place.

Re Rev Wilfred - I didn't know he had been officiating minister at St Margaret's;  wish I had access to the pr's;  perhaps one day they'll be put on-line - I wish !  I did find a report of his misdemeanours online.

In my note I mentioned one of Rev Wilfred's sons (Wilfred Dakin Speer) was murdered in the US - it was an interesting case, there's quite a bit online about it.  I have a copy of his will.  Even though he was killed in the US, he's buried at Woking.  Newspaper says "The remains of Captain Wilfred Speer who was shot on board the steamer "Octavia" near Fort Buford, Missouri River in June last, were yesterday interred in the family vault at the Necropolis, Woking, Surrey" (Pall Mall Gazette, Tuesday, 3 September 1867).  That's another place on my list of things to do if I get back to UK !

Hope all this is useful.

Genial      Sydney Oz    18 February 2012

I came across this thread while searching for information on Albert Sachs's studio.  I have a photograph of two young girls, details unknown, which was taken at Albert's studio.  The photo measures about 4 x 5-1/2 inches and the slightly larger backing card is white with gilded edge and printing.  The photo is numbered 32403.

The photo is an original and came from the collection of my late aunt in Australia. 

We have no idea who these charming girls are (they appear to be aged possibly 12 and 10 or thereabouts) and there is no known family in Bradford, or indeed in the UK at that time who could be likely subjects.

Genial,      Sydney Oz,   7 January 2012

Vaz,

Thank you for your offer, no not quite all resolved yet  - particularly looking for burials.

Looking for any BROWNJOHN burials c1700-1750 if that's possible, particularly
Rebeccah BROWNJOHN between 1728-1736.  I know some of these old registers aren't the easiest to search - hope this one's in good shape!

Absolutely no rush.

Much ta,

Genial     Sydney Oz    14 Feb 2011