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Messages - Saorog

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1
Fermanagh / Re: cartwright and Howell families in Fermanagh
« on: Thursday 11 September 08 10:43 BST (UK)  »
Hi Stuart,

Well, I've just spoken with the fellow who has all the CoI records for that parish in a library in Dublin, I have never visited it myself but will be soon. I will try to find any Howells in Clonmore/Rath in that time frame and report back. Back to computational linguistics research for me now :(

Regards,

Stephen

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Fermanagh / Re: cartwright and Howell families in Fermanagh
« on: Thursday 11 September 08 10:17 BST (UK)  »
Hi Stuart,

Wow, you have good data. It is early here in Ireland, and I am supposed to be finishing my PhD, but instead I'm doing something much more interesting. I have very similar information about the Howells of Rath/Clonmore as you do, but I can trace (with evidence) only to 1859. I know it is very likely that any Richard Howell in the area is probably a relation, it is a small rural area, and the name is too particular to be a coincidence. My father's uncles (now in their 80s) have names like Richard, William & Patrick too. Howell in general though, although not particularly common, is not especially rare, there are many Howell families in Cork and elsewhere (a few hundred miles away from Clonmore) so I'm concentrating on the Clonmore/Louth ones. The fact that Mary Anne married a Protestant from another county (she would have been a Protestant too) suggests an arranged marriage. This was the norm for the time, especially in land owning Protestant families, or so I'm told. It might have been difficult for them to meet someone from that far away in those days, unless some element of planning was involved! I will try the Louth library's collection of Historical Journals, these are not online and so may yield something. I will also head to the National Archives in a few weeks to continue digging. If I could connect the Catholic Richard Howell to the Protestant Richard Howell it would be a major breakthrough for me.

Regards,

Stephen

3
Fermanagh / Re: cartwright and Howell families in Fermanagh
« on: Thursday 11 September 08 09:38 BST (UK)  »
Hi all,

I see Stuart managed to reply on the thread while I was typing the above post!
I still live around Clonmore, so I can do some leg work if needed. The local priest let me see the original registers, but sadly the Catholic Howell's only went back to 1880s in the ones he had at the time. I will try other sources. I actually left this side of the tree to last thinking it would be easier than the others but it is not proving to be so. The Howell families appear to have lived in the Rath/Clonmore areas since at least the 1750s. They were Protestant, and farmers. This was quite common for the area at the time. They appear to have switched religion through marriage sometime around the mid 1800's. I have no direct evidence for this accept that they suddenly start appearing on Catholic registers instead of Church of Ireland ones. I haven't done an in-depth search of the CoI registers yet, but it's next. The are 2 distinct Howell families originating from Clonmore now, one still living in the area. There are certain common Howell first names that recur in this time frame:

Richard, William, George (and to a much lesser extent, Patrick, John)

Here is an excellent site, I have met the fellow who compiles it and he is a really excellent authority:
http://www.jbhall.freeservers.com/1756_commission_of_array.htm/

On that page, for instance, we can see a Richard Howell from the general area (exact area not mentioned) who was at the commission of array in 1756. The page mentions: "The Commission of Array was held nationwide in September of 1756. As this was the era of the Penal Laws, Roman Catholics were not permitted to bear arms. Consequently, the names in the following list can be assumed to be members of the Protestant faith. The Commission was held to ascertain the number of eligible men available to protect the country and to train these men in the use of firearms etc."

Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

Regards,

Saorog

4
Fermanagh / Re: cartwright and Howell families in Fermanagh
« on: Thursday 11 September 08 09:23 BST (UK)  »
Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't aware of the Cartwright/New Zealand connection till I saw your post, so it is all new to me! I am trying to connect my last known Howell in Clonmore (Richard Howell, b 1859) to Mary Anne Howell. This may not be possible. Stuart (op above) emailed me this morning to tell me that Mary Anne's father was also a Richard Howell, and it is a relatively rare name in this area for this time. My second name is Richard incidentally, I was partly named after another Richard Howell who died in a farm accident in Clonmore in the 1950s. I will collect what I have and prepare a return email/tree. Thanks for the reply!

Regards,

Saorog

5
Fermanagh / Re: cartwright and Howell families in Fermanagh
« on: Thursday 11 September 08 00:47 BST (UK)  »
Hi Stuart,
I am at present tracing my family tree.
Mary Cartwright nee Howell came to New Zealnd on the "Altrato" 1873 with her 2 youngest sons Edward (22),
James(20) & 2 of her nephews Robert(22) my grandfather & James(20). she lived in South Canterbury New Zealand until her death 1874.
I have a lot of infomation on the family tree in New Zealand but very little in Ireland.
I realise it is some time since you posted this message but hopefully you are stil in contact.
Kind Regards
John Cartwright, Ashburton, Canterbury, New Zealand

Hi John, Stuart,

I am also tracing my family tree, but I am one of the Clonmore Howell's. Not having huge success with this side of the tree though. This is new and interesting information to me. There is some info available on the Howell's in Clonmore (it is a small rural area, there appear to be 3 - 4  distinct Howell families though, possibly stemming from brothers circa 1800). Perhaps we could pool information and we might get a step further.

Regards,

Saorog

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