Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Timbottawa

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 92
1
The Common Room / Re: Bankruptcy fraud?
« on: Friday 29 November 24 11:48 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you all for your explanations and clarifications.

I'm not sure I really understand the issue, still.  Many years ago, an elderly relative (it's where you're always told to begin!) commented that my grandfather had "got involved with a number of unscrupulous characters, especially Jack Gough".  Three elderly relatives independently claimed that he (my grandfather) had worked as manager of the North Bay cinema in 1922.  Jack Gough's argument with "Samuel Lawrence" was his poor performance managing the cinema and his drunkeness" - both attributes of my grandfather.  In the period 1920-23, my grandfather was living at an address that was described in at least one newspaper report as being Jack Gough's home address.  These are the reasons I believe my grandfather, actually Harold Boyle, was "Samuel Lawrence".

The previous year, my grandfather had been sentenced to 6 weeks in prison for defrauding the War Widows' Pension Fund after getting heavily in debt.  Before the war, he himself had been declared bankrupt in Bradford, so he had a long history of inept financial management.  So, to me, everything seems to point to an effort to avoid further punishment for (possibly) defrauding someone - but was it my grandfather defrauding Jack Gough?  Or he and Gough colluding to defraud someone else?  I just find it puzzling.


2
The Common Room / Bankruptcy fraud?
« on: Thursday 28 November 24 11:14 GMT (UK)  »
Apologies for showing my ignorance of (early 20th century) bankruptcy procedures ...

John Robert Gough appeared before a bankruptcy court in Scarborough in November 1922.  He told a curious tale!

He had been in partnership with a certain "Samuel Lawrence", running the North Bay cinema in Scarborough.  In August, the two of them had a huge argument concerning Lawrence's work habits/drunkeness, which resulted in Gough leaving Scarborough for 6 weeks.  On his return in mid September, he discovered that Lawrence, who had been entrusted with total financial responsibility within the partnership, had absconded with all the money, leaving him (Gough) bankrupt.  Subsequently, Gough had tried but failed to learn of Lawrence's whereabouts.

I believe (for reasons I won't bore you with) that "Samuel Lawrence" was an alias, and that Gough's partner was actually my grandfather.  And furthermore, that in November 1922 Gough knew exactly where my grandfather was, as he was living in Gough's house in Scarborough.

So this sounds like a crude attempt at fraud - but I can't figure out who is being defrauded.  At the time, if a bankrupt turned up in court and said "Sorry, m'lud, but my partner ran off with all the money", ...

a) would the court/police make efforts to pursue the abscondee?
b) what would be the consequences for the bankrupt person, in this case, Gough?

3
The Common Room / Re: Military service record: William Raper, (? - 1823)
« on: Sunday 24 November 24 13:20 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Shaun.  If that William Raper is my fellow, he would have been 14 years old at the end of 1814.  Possible in those days, I suppose?

Yes, the will is probably the next step.


4
The Common Room / Re: Military service record: William Raper, (? - 1823)
« on: Friday 22 November 24 05:57 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Graham ... I knew I was venturing into a "minefield", particularly because of the E. India Co. vs regular army question, to which I do not know the answer.

From the guide you linked me to, under "soldiers who died in service", I note "Registers of authorities to deal with the effects (possessions) of dead soldiers 1810-1822 in WO 25 ...".  Probate for my fellow was 1823, so unless probate was delayed (possible for a soldier who died in India, I suppose), I'm just outside the period covered.

But one thing that the guide did not answer - as far as I could see - presumably there must have been a death certificate of some kind in order to go to probate.  By whom/how would that death certificate have been issued?  Would it have been an army (/E. India Co.) - issued document, or would there have been some sort of civil certificate?  I can't find any!

5
The Common Room / Military service record: William Raper, (? - 1823)
« on: Thursday 21 November 24 11:15 GMT (UK)  »
The Prerogative & Exchequer Courts Of York Probate Index, 1688-1858 has a record for May 1823:

"Raper William, heretofore of Thirsk, but late of Calcutta in the East Indies, a Soldier and a Bachelor"

It seems clear that William was a soldier who died in or near Calcutta in early 1823.  However, I have been unable to find any service records on Ancestry or FindMyPast ... their coverage seems to start later.  Can any military expert please guide me to where I can uncover his military service record?

Thanks!

6
The Common Room / Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
« on: Wednesday 20 November 24 10:51 GMT (UK)  »
Yes ... perhaps a decade too early for such photos (1921).  There are also reports of his bankruptcy in 1911, also no photos.

7
The Common Room / Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
« on: Wednesday 20 November 24 10:38 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Norma ... I have tried that, without success.  There's even one tree with a (private) photo of "Harold Boyle and Edith Butler marriage" - I sent a message many, many years ago, never got an answer.  I suspect it's actually an image of their marriage certificate.

8
The Common Room / Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
« on: Wednesday 20 November 24 09:50 GMT (UK)  »
My grandfather was Harold Alfred Boyle (1881-1927).  He had 5 children, including my father.  All 5 children destroyed all photos of their father and refused to talk about him.  Whenever I asked my dad, he would say "you don't want to know about him, a terrible man".

Of course, he wasn't a "terrible man" to me, and I would love to find a photo of him.  I have been trying for years, thus far with no success.

He joined the armed forces twice - a brief 3-month stint in the Royal Navy in 1900, then he served in the Royal Field Artillery, 1915-1919.  But, as far as I can discover, neither the Navy in 1900, nor the Army in 1915 photographed recruits - or, if they did, those photos have been destroyed.

He also served time in prison in 1921.  Some 10 years ago I looked into police mug-shots or prisoner photos, but at the time I was told that, even if such photos existed, under the 100-yr-rule, access would be denied.  the 100-yr deadline has now passed, of course.

I've wondered about school photos (in Bradford in the 1890's), and I've contacted every single living relative of his sisters and brothers/sisters in law, with no luck.

Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome!

9
The Common Room / Re: Help in understanding early 20th C bankruptcy!
« on: Monday 18 November 24 08:58 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks.  Not so much that my eyes jumped a line, but that I (mis-)interpreted the "date of transfer" to mean the date on which it was transferred TO the holder, and therefore the date on which the license started, which yielded the dates I quoted.  But I do see that the intention was the date on which the holder yielded his license.

In this case, Harold held the license at the Rose and Crown for only 4 months, and then the license at the King's Head, Kettlewell for (probably) less than a month.  It would have been quite difficult to acrue such debts in such a short period of time, suggesting to me that he entered into these two licenses already carrying a substantial debt, and his bankruptcy was not so much his failed ventures at licensed victualling, but longer-standing financial mis-management.

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 92