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Messages - CitizenSmith

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 32
1
Travelling People / Re: Travellers 148 Occupation Rd, Belvedere, Kent
« on: Wednesday 19 June 24 10:19 BST (UK)  »
Apologies - should have added that the author of the book was recalling the names of her neighbours from 40 years earlier when she recorded her memories on tape in the 1990s. I have no doubt that the your Holfords were her Alfords, perhaps with a dropped "H".

2
Travelling People / Re: Travellers 148 Occupation Rd, Belvedere, Kent
« on: Wednesday 19 June 24 10:12 BST (UK)  »
Hello afb57

Occupation Road, Belvedere, was one of the main "roads" through the centre of a permanent Romany Gypsy/Traveller encampment. Called the "Belvedere Marsh Romany Encampment" it existed on that site since at least 1900 or so.

The majority of the people living there were Romanies/Travellers but there were also some non-Gypsies. They lived in mixture of vans, tents, wooden sheds and bungalows. There is a book about the community written by someone who was born there in the 1930s and grew up there - Betsy Stanley. It's called "Memories of the Marsh: A Traveller Life in Kent" and is available from the Romany and Traveller Family History Society. It's listed on their Publications page.

As well as being the autobiography of the author, the book includes a map of the "plots" along Occupation Road, plus a list of the names of the people who lived on each plot. "Alford's shop" is in that list. I would suggest that the Alfords lived there on their business premises rather than it being a shop only.

There were moves by the local authorities in the run-up to the Second World War and during it to move the inhabitants of the Encampment so that the land could be turned into allotments and public space. Its final demise was triggered by the dramatic 1953 floods of that area which destroyed many homes in the Encampment and its surroundings as well as loss of life.


3
Travelling People / Re: Thomas Lovell and Union Bosworth
« on: Monday 29 August 22 11:19 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jenny

There are many references to the Lovells who were living in London in about 1816 in the book "The Gypsies" by John Hoyland. He devotes a chapter to London Romany families starting on page 173 which you can read free at the Internet Archive website:

https://archive.org/details/b29305664/page/n11/mode/2up

The book is also available as a modern reprint from the Romany and Traveller Family History Society:
http://rtfhs.org.uk/publications/reprints-of-classic-books/

Some of Hoyland's Lovells are in Shoreditch - the location of St Leonard's church. You might therefore find it useful to collect their first names - Uriah, John, James, Joseph, Thomas, William, Corrie, Solomon, Betsy - as they could well be related to each other. Finding out where they originated/travelled/baptised their children/married could perhaps point to where to look for relevant and associated Bosworth/Boswell/Boss families.

Hoyland also refers to the schooling of the Lovell children, the streets the families lived in and where London Gypsies used to travel to after overwintering in the capital.

Hope this helps!
Sharon

4
Travelling People / Re: Old School Yard, Tottenham – Taylor and Draper
« on: Saturday 07 May 22 12:02 BST (UK)  »
Hello again

Many thanks for this reference. I will see if I can discover the street address of this residential development.

Appreciate your help and your interest in this.

Sharon

5
Travelling People / Re: Old School Yard, Tottenham – Taylor and Draper
« on: Thursday 05 May 22 17:12 BST (UK)  »
Hello JJ

Many thanks for this new reference and for your DM. I will certainly check this out at the Harringey website.

Sharon

6
Travelling People / Re: George 'Sonnie' Gibbard - Gipsy Smith's (MBE) Grandson
« on: Thursday 01 August 19 10:32 BST (UK)  »
Hi Sophie

The information I have about Gipsy Smith's ancestry - largely due to the work of the late Romany genealogy expert Terence Lee - is that his mother was Polly/Mary Welsh/Welch (born c1833, died 1865) and his father Cornelius Smith (1831-1922).

Polly/Mary had a sister called Lucy Welch/Welsh. Lucy was the partner of Rodney Shaw (born about 1835) and one their daughters was called Matilda. Could she be your Matilda Shaw? I don't have any further biographical information for her but her family had roots in Cambridgeshire/Bedfordshire/Hertfordshire.

Sharon

7
Travelling People / Re: Alfred and Rebekah Herring
« on: Sunday 19 May 19 17:01 BST (UK)  »
Hello

This family have a family tree in a new book just published by the Romany and Traveller Family History Society, in a chapter about the Heron/Herring clan. It's called "Ten Major Families of Wales & The English West & North" by Eric Trudgill. Can't see any marriages between Browns and Herrings in this specific branch of the Heron/Herring family but there are such marriages/partnerships in other branches.

It looks like the Everilda born 1840 may have died young as this couple named another daughter Eldarifa in 1850. (Or perhaps they baptised the same daughter a second time... :))

There's more about this book on this page of the RTFHS website:
https://rtfhs.org.uk/publications/gypsy-families/

Sharon

8
Travelling People / Re: DRAPER's of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.
« on: Sunday 19 May 19 16:42 BST (UK)  »
Just wondered if you have been able to digest all the Draper material in the past four weeks and if you have any questions or comments?

Any information you have relating to these families would be very welcome. Thank you.

Sharon

9
Travelling People / Re: DRAPER's of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.
« on: Sunday 14 April 19 22:30 BST (UK)  »
Hi Panished

Many thanks for all these - some I knew about, some I didn't. So good additions to my database.

All good wishes
Sharon

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