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Messages - smcd

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1
Renfrewshire / Re: McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Thursday 08 January 09 07:36 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Ann.

I have not had a lot to do with Scotland's People as I guess I hit a brick wall over 12 months' ago and did get some information from the Scotland' People website from kind people at the time who had access to it, so it has not been until now when I have had a contact from a gentleman in USA who has discovered my previous postings re the McDougall family from Johnstone, Renfrewshire, Scotland that I have bothered to do research on this family as I have had other branches that have been more productive for time spent over the past 12 to 18 months.  I do appreciate your suggestion though.

Also note that you are interested in the Muir family.  Our Alexander McDougall, son of James McDougall & Elizabeth Montgomery married an Agnes Muir b. 6/11/1829 in Kilwinning.  Her parents were John Muir b. about 1803 and Isobel Smith born 17 April 1799 in Irvine, Ayr, Scotland.  John Muir's parents were John Muir and Margaret Ferguson we believe.  Isobel Smith's parents were Hugh Smith and Janet McBride.  Could this be a connection to your Muir family?????

Kind regards
Shirley

2
Renfrewshire / Re: McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Sunday 04 January 09 22:04 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Again

Thank you so much for the reply and for the reply to our email and photo.  I have found all of this in our email box this morning and we are very excited about this new contact with you, but will be away all day today and also possibly tomorrow.  There is so much I need to write and send, and I am sure you also have much such as the obituary you speak of to share and write to us.  I just need a couple of days before I will have the time to get my head back around the McDougall's, as since I felt I had hit a brick wall previously, I have been putting all time and efforts into other branches of the family tree.  I will be in touch as soon as I can get these next two days behind us.

Best regards
smcd (Shirley & Doug)

3
Renfrewshire / Re: McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Monday 26 November 07 02:21 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Liz

Thanks you for trying to help me.  I have been into the familysearch.org site and have found both Malcolm McDougall's with thier different mothers, though one's surname for McDougall is different from the other (if that makes a difference)...  However, I am not sure what you mean re the oblong box to the right of the page where it lists IGI uk?????  Have also tried the freecen.org.uk site, but have found nothing.  Perhaps it is me...

Cheers Shirley

4
Renfrewshire / Re: McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Saturday 24 November 07 07:03 GMT (UK)  »
Hello 'seekthem'

I appreceiate your reply to the previous positing I had on this site.  A previous posting by Althea said, and I quote:

 "... McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Wednesday 25 October 06 21:07 BST (UK) »    Reply with quote
See lots of interest lately with McDougall name. Anyone following Elizabeth Montgomrie and James McDougall/McDugall.
1841 census  Elizabeth is a widow at Johnstone aged 45, entereed as Bell or ?Beth
Children Robert, Janet, Susana, Alexr,  Malcom and James...."

Following that a posting by Joekar said, and I quote:

"1841 census- graham street, johnstone

bell (nickname)...age 45...widow
robert...age 20...printer foundry
janet...age 18...mill worker
susan...age 16...mill worker
malcolm...age 7
james...age 2
alexander...age 44...mill worker
robert montgomery....age 21

Joe"

Now, I have your posting regarding the two entries.  I do not have access to the Census information which is why I have been so appreciative of the assistance given by all these wonderful people.  If there are two different entries for Malcolm's birth, is it possible to do a 'cut and paste' of that information for me.

A posting by Ann Baker for me gave Elizabeth's death details as follows:

" Hi Shirley

Elizabeth Montgomery/Montgomerie's parents were Daniel (so son Neil named after him) and mother Margaret (maiden name Alexander)

She died as a widow in Houston Square Johnstone on 19/11/1870 Aged 75

Ann"

Ann also mentioned that Elizabeth Montgomery's death was reported by Catherine Craig who was her daughter.

I am grateful for whatever information I can get on this whole family, including all the sons and daughters of James McDougall and Elizabeth Montgomery, and the references of where the information is taken from.

It has taken me a while to input all that wonderful information I have already received into my Family Tree, and it is exciting to see all the extra detail there that has been forthcoming.

ALSO could you please tell me how to access "free census" material?

Best regards
smcd (Shirley)
Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia


5
Renfrewshire / Re: McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Thursday 22 November 07 13:26 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Again Ann and also Joe

Life has been busy here with Christmas just around the corner, but I have nevertheless been drawn back to the computer constantly in between other things to input all the information that between you both, I have received through this newly discovered website.  The amount of information that I have received as a result of your kindness has been overwhelming.

Firstly, Ann, you seem to have been into Scotlands People on my behalf and gathered a good deal of information re the McDougalls.  In adding this info to my family tree, I have also rechecked with the IGI on www.familysearch.org.  I feel that I have come a long way in establishing the actual family of James McDougall (McDougal) and his wife Elizabeth Montgomery/Montgomerie--my husband, Doug's, Great Great Grandparents.

Previously I did not have a Malcolm McDougall as a son to James and Elizabeth and that is now listed on the IGI, though Ann you found a Malcolm in Scotlands people but with a James McDougall and an Isabella Montgomery as the parents.  I am a bit confused by this... and would love this checked if you could do that for me.

Also the IGI list does not include a Robert McDougall b 7/4/1821, but I am certain there is one as suggested by the references you have from Scotland's people.

I am thrilled that you have established the parents of Elizabeth Montgomerie too Ann--thank you for that.  This just wets my appetite to know if there is more information about this family lurking in Scotland's People????

So I now have the children of Elizabeth and James McDougal/McDougall as:
Cathrin/Christian (F)/Catherine...b. 1816
Neil...b. 1819
Robert...b. 1821
Janet...b.1823
Susan King...b. 1825
Alexander... b. 1827 My husband's Great Grandfather
Mary Stewart...b. 1829
Margaret Stewart...b. 1831
Malcolm...b.1834
James...b. 1838

I would love any other bits and pieces on these people.  We have been told one of Alexander's sisters also came to Australia--possibly even before he and his wife, Agnes Muir (of Kilwinning) and their family came here.  Alexander was my husband's Great, Great Grandfather.

Interestingly, Alexander and Agnes's children's names closely resemble those above.  They were:

Isabella MCDOUGALL...b. 1852 in Scotland (named after the Agnes's Mother)
James MCDOUGALL...b. 1855 in Scotland (died at sea on way to Aust)--named after Father's Father and Father's brother.
John MCDOUGALL...b. 1857 in Aust. Named after Agnes's Father (John Muir)
Alexander MCDOUGALL...b.1858 Named after his Father
Robert MCDOUGALL...b. 1860 Named after Father's brother
Malcolm MCDOUGALL...b. 1862 Named after Father's brother.  This is Doug's Grand Father
James MCDOUGALL...b. 1867 Named after the brother who died enroute to Australia and also the Father's Brother and Father
Agnes MCDOUGALL...b.1873 Named after her Mother--Agnes Muir

You will see from this that it is all coming together nicely.  I have not found which of the sisters might have come to Australia.  I thought it may have been Susan, and then when Althea from NZ wrote about Susan, I thought she may have gone to NZ instead.  Now, I think Althea's Susan is not the same and we know from Scotland's People that our Susan in fact continued to live in Scotland.

If you do turn up any more information on this family as they lived and died in Scotland, I would be most grateful.  Any references would be hdlpful also so that I can include them against the information I get.

Again my many thanks for the assistance you have given me.

Warm regards
smcd (Shirley)
Maroochydore   Queensland   Australia

6
Renfrewshire / Re: McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Sunday 18 November 07 11:44 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Again to Ann and to Joe

I do hope you don't mind that I am including you both on the one reply again, but you have both been so very kind with your research on my behalf and I would be saying the same things twice in two different replies if I did not do it this way.

to be honest I have been delighted that the two of you have cared to assist me with the McDougall family research.  What you have both sent in the last day or so has been fabulous.  However, I must also confess that I have had a very busy weekend here and therefore have not had the time to truly digest the information or to put it into perspective with the existing information that I have.  Tomorrow I have a friend coming who is expecting that I have organised a lot of material regarding Doug's Mother's Father's side of the family who were Danish.  Because I have become so involved back with the McDougall research over the past week since I discovered Roots Chat, I have not touched the Danish information.  I am sure we will muddle through tomorrow, and then I will get back to the research you two wonderful people have been assisting me with.

Give me at least another 48 hours to get back to you, but just know that I am absolutely thrilled that we seem to be getting this McDougall family sorted.  Again thank you so much for your wonderful assistance to date.

With Best Regards
smcd (Shirley)
from Australia

7
Renfrewshire / Re: McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Friday 16 November 07 11:40 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Again Joe

Thanks for the assistance once again.  However, we believe we do have the correct info pertaining to Alexander McDougall, son of James McDougall and Elizabeth Montgomery.  Alexander married Agnes Muir from Kilwinning, Ayr, Scotland on 29h Aug 1851 in Kilwinning, Ayr, Scotland.  Their children were as follows:

Isabella...b 9th Jan 1852 in Ardrossan, Scotland
James...b 1855 and died 1855 at sea
John...b.24th Jan 1857 in Ipswich, Colony of New South Wales, Australia
Alexander...b3rd March 1858 in Ipswich, Colony of New South Wales, Aust
Robert...b. 8th Oct 1860 in Ipswich, Qld, Australia
Malcolm...b.27th July 1862 in Ipswich, Qld, Australia
James...b. 2nd Aug 1867 Ipswich, Qld, Aust
Agnes...b. 8th July 1873 in Ipswich, Qld, Australia

I have references of all the births that were here in Australia and reference to the 1st two from the shipping records.  Have also traced the family back on the wife's (Agnes) side.  She was Agnes Muir born 6 Nov, 1829 in Kilwinning, Ayr, Scotland.  She and Alexander married in Kilwinning.  Her parents were John Muir and Isabella Smith and they lived at Bridgend Lane in Kilwinning.

Isabella was one of the daughters of Hugh Smith and Janet McBride and they married on 17 May 1828.  John's parents were Robert Muir and Jean Jack.

Thanks again though for trying, but I am sure we have this information correct.

Regards
smcd (Shirley)
from Australia

8
Renfrewshire / Re: McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Friday 16 November 07 07:15 GMT (UK)  »
Hello again Joe

I am just trying to wade my way through all the wonderful information that has been sent my way re the McDougall family.  I have a query of you... 

Could you please go back to wherever yu found the information re the 1841 census where you have the father, James, already desceased and Elizabeth (Bell) living at Graham Street, Johnstone.  In that detail which you sent to me, you have Alexander listed as being 44 and a mill worker.  However, my information would have had him as being about 14 at that stage.  Could this be a typing error in transcription???? I have Alexander as being born on 30 Apr 1827 in Johnstone Renfrewshire.  That piece of information does not seem to fit...

I did my initial research on this family on the familysearch.org site and that is where I gathered the names:

Catherin MCDOUGALL...b.
Marion MCDOUGALL...b.29 Oct 1816   
Neil MCDOUGALL...b.11 Jan 1819
Robert MCDOUGALL...b.07 Apr 1821
Janet MCDOUGALL...b.02 May 1823
Susan King MCDOUGALL...b.04 Jun 1825
Alexander MCDOUGALL...b.30 Apr 1827...Johnstone, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Mary Stewart MCDOUGALL...b.05 Jul 1829
James MCDOUGAL...b.06 Jun 1838

I have the Death Cert of Alexander and it states the parents as: James McDougall...Cotton Spinner and Elizabeth Montgomery.

Interestingly, the children of Alexander and his wife Agnes (and I have quite a bit on Agnes's family--even finding a long-lost cousin for Doug in Scotland) were:
Isabella... (named after his wife's Mother) & born in Scotland
James... (named after his Father) born in Scotland but died at sea
John... born in Australia and died 2 & a half months later
Alexander... (named after himself)
Robert... (named probably after his brother)
Malcolm... (Doug's Grandfather &  possibly named after a brother we did not know existed in the list we have)
James...(named also after the Father since the other James died)
Agnes...(named after the Mother)

Since it was custom to name the first son after the Father's Father and the second son after the Mother's Father, then we can assume that Elizabeth Montgomery's Father was probably a John????? and that is where that name came from in Alexander and Agnes McDougall's family here in Australia.

However, I am still uneasy re athe names I have and the names that have come to me in the last couple of days.  For instance, it does seems likely that there may well have been a Malcolm born to James and Elizabeth, as I have often wondered how that name turned up in his son Alexander's family and this Malcolm of couse is Doug's Grandfather.

Also could the Christine I have really be a Christian McDougall? and why did this name never seem to come up again in the family??

Does the Marion McDougall I have just not exist in this family?  Certainly I never saw this name occur again either...

What about the Mary Stewart McDougall?  Who is she??

Why did I not have a Malcolm?? (although I did in another search of familysearch.org on another occasion and he was born 1834 which fits with your 7 yrs old in the 1841 census)

Why did I have Susan King McDougall, if her name was simply Susan??

I have too many questions don't I...........  I do apologise for this, but I just would like to make sure I have the right people and have it referenced properly ie where the info comes from.  I guess there could have been deaths in the family as often happened in those days which is another explanation.


SORRY ANOTHER QUERY......

There seems evidence that Susan McDougall married John Duncan around 1852 and she shows up in the 1861 census as 35 which fits with her being born 04 Jun 1825.  However I have a contact now with Althea in NZ who believes she is a descendant of Susan who married Achibald Morren and moved to NZ.

I really must sort out some answers to these queries before entering too much information into my tree.

Joe, I realise this is a lot to lay at your feet and will understand if you just feel it is not somewhere you want to go with your research.  On the other hand, if you too are interested in helping me sort out this problem, I will be so very, very grateful for your kindness.

Very kind regards
smcd (Shirley) from Australia

9
Renfrewshire / Re: McDougall/Montgomrie of Johnstone
« on: Friday 16 November 07 01:46 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Joe and Hello Ann

I am overwhelmed by the kindness of both of you and the information you have been sending me.  Thank you both so very much.  Every little piece of information that is forthcoming helps to unravel the mysteries that our ancestors left behind.  We live here in Australia, about an hour's drive north of Brisbane, and to be able to have people like yourselves from so far away assist with information so quickly by message, through this site to our computer is just wonderful.  Hope you do not mind this message being sent to the two of you in one, but I have just received your messages and must rush out to a funeral so wanted to respond quickly before I leave.

I will look through all that you have sent in fine detail later in the day.  Again a very sincere thank you for your kind efforts and for taking the time to reply so quickly.

Kindest regards
smcd (Shirley)

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