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Derbyshire Lookup Requests / Re: Marriage records for Riddings Independant Chapel, around 1863
« on: Monday 12 November 07 19:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi Glen - good question,
Well..... a couple of years back when my family tree activity was more limited to Genes Reunited, I was contacted by John Whysall who turned out to be my 1st cousin once removed (my dad's uncle's son). John had done a lot of research into the Whysall lines and had a comprehensive tree on GR, much of which I adopted as my own. John and I were in contact for a while, and he's certainly an experienced researcher. However, I became less active on GR for a while (my dad died last summer) and when I came back to researching, it seemed all the more important to have my own first hand evidence, and I also noticed that John had changed the years of birth in his tree for John and Mary Whysall, from the early 1830s to mid 1840s. About the same time I started looking around other websites, and came across a thread on Genealogy.com (posted by Simon Goodwin and Barrie Robinson) called 'Whysall Family of Pentrich & Codnor'. This raised doubts for me about some of John's research, and I eventualy managed to track down Barrie Robinson (he's in Tasmania!) who has been doing single surname research on Whysall, and I am now in contact with him also. Anyhow, I reviewed all the information I had ever had from John Whysall, and included was a link to Rootschat.com, which I had never followed up. This was my first introduction to the site, and on this link,
I picked up the entry below........
Entry from John Whysall on Rootschat:
Re: CRESSWELL look up please
« Reply #55 on: Saturday 06 November 04 14:07 GMT (UK) »
~~~~~~~~
If this thread is not dead, may I intervene?
First, though, a greeting to all my Cresswell cousins.
My interest in this stems from the marriage of Mary CRESSWELL (b.1844, "House Wife") of Ripley, Derbyshire to John WHYSALL (b.1843; Collier). Hushed respect, please to my great-great-grandparents!
Mary Cresswell's parents were Robert CRESSWELL and Fanny BOOTH.
John WHYSALL's parents were William WHYSALL and Ann FLETCHER. This takes us into Pentrich, Derby (the scene, let it be remembered, of the last armed uprising in England). I am currently working on the assumption that this is the William Whysall christening 18 Sep 1803; Pentrich, Derby,
parents: William Whysall & Mirah Taylor.
Back to John and Mary:
Six children:
Frank (b.1859);
Susanna (b. 1863);
Thomas (b.1870: Grand dad!);
Frederick (b.1870);
James (b.1872);
German (b.1874)
I contacted John again a couple of weeks back to see where he stood on it all nowadays, and he replied "Yes, I too had some complications with the 1833/1843 birthdates: as I recall, I sorted it by reference to the ages given on the census returns." So that's a bit inconclusive really..... Sorry John if you're out there - I'm just getting mightily confused!!
My own research is now becoming much more supportive of the theory that John b 1831 and Mary b 1835. I guess I have not been confident enough in my own findings and needed opinions of other experienced folk with an open mind! Rootschat folk have helped point me at GRO indexes, and I now have marriage cert for John & Mary and birth cert for Thomas.
Here are findings from registers:
Birth of my great grandfather Thomas:
16th April 1866 at Waingroves, Pentrich, Thomas, boy, father John Whysall, mother Mary Whysall formerly Cresswell, father's occupation coal miner, signed by/informant - the mark of Mary Whysall mother Waingroves, registered 21st May 1866
Marriage of my great great grandparents John and Mary:
on 28th December 1856, at independent Chapel Riddings, District of Belper, John Whysall, age 25 years, Bachelor, Coal miner, Ripley, (no entry for father's name and surname or rank or profession of father), married Mary Cresswell, age 21 years, Spinster, Ripley, father Francis Cresswell deceased, Coal miner. Witnesses James Cresswell and Ruth Cresswell. No signatures all "the mark of....."
Again, this challenges John Whysall's theory above that parents of Mary Cresswell are Robert Cresswell and Fanny Booth, because according to the marriage certificate, Mary's father is Francis Cresswell (deceased). Email from Barrie in Tazmania last night - he believes that Mary Cresswell's parents were Francis and Susannah and she was baptized on 29 June 1837.
So, Glen, that's quite a rambling explanation of 'where it all comes from' and what the conflicts are. I can't fully rationalise it...... but every now and again, i just keep thinking there was maybe another couple called John & mary Whysall......??!
Whizzer
PS - good work on the death of Sarah - I'll look at that reference, but it certainly seems to tie it up.
Well..... a couple of years back when my family tree activity was more limited to Genes Reunited, I was contacted by John Whysall who turned out to be my 1st cousin once removed (my dad's uncle's son). John had done a lot of research into the Whysall lines and had a comprehensive tree on GR, much of which I adopted as my own. John and I were in contact for a while, and he's certainly an experienced researcher. However, I became less active on GR for a while (my dad died last summer) and when I came back to researching, it seemed all the more important to have my own first hand evidence, and I also noticed that John had changed the years of birth in his tree for John and Mary Whysall, from the early 1830s to mid 1840s. About the same time I started looking around other websites, and came across a thread on Genealogy.com (posted by Simon Goodwin and Barrie Robinson) called 'Whysall Family of Pentrich & Codnor'. This raised doubts for me about some of John's research, and I eventualy managed to track down Barrie Robinson (he's in Tasmania!) who has been doing single surname research on Whysall, and I am now in contact with him also. Anyhow, I reviewed all the information I had ever had from John Whysall, and included was a link to Rootschat.com, which I had never followed up. This was my first introduction to the site, and on this link,
I picked up the entry below........
Entry from John Whysall on Rootschat:
Re: CRESSWELL look up please
« Reply #55 on: Saturday 06 November 04 14:07 GMT (UK) »
~~~~~~~~
If this thread is not dead, may I intervene?
First, though, a greeting to all my Cresswell cousins.
My interest in this stems from the marriage of Mary CRESSWELL (b.1844, "House Wife") of Ripley, Derbyshire to John WHYSALL (b.1843; Collier). Hushed respect, please to my great-great-grandparents!
Mary Cresswell's parents were Robert CRESSWELL and Fanny BOOTH.
John WHYSALL's parents were William WHYSALL and Ann FLETCHER. This takes us into Pentrich, Derby (the scene, let it be remembered, of the last armed uprising in England). I am currently working on the assumption that this is the William Whysall christening 18 Sep 1803; Pentrich, Derby,
parents: William Whysall & Mirah Taylor.
Back to John and Mary:
Six children:
Frank (b.1859);
Susanna (b. 1863);
Thomas (b.1870: Grand dad!);
Frederick (b.1870);
James (b.1872);
German (b.1874)
I contacted John again a couple of weeks back to see where he stood on it all nowadays, and he replied "Yes, I too had some complications with the 1833/1843 birthdates: as I recall, I sorted it by reference to the ages given on the census returns." So that's a bit inconclusive really..... Sorry John if you're out there - I'm just getting mightily confused!!
My own research is now becoming much more supportive of the theory that John b 1831 and Mary b 1835. I guess I have not been confident enough in my own findings and needed opinions of other experienced folk with an open mind! Rootschat folk have helped point me at GRO indexes, and I now have marriage cert for John & Mary and birth cert for Thomas.
Here are findings from registers:
Birth of my great grandfather Thomas:
16th April 1866 at Waingroves, Pentrich, Thomas, boy, father John Whysall, mother Mary Whysall formerly Cresswell, father's occupation coal miner, signed by/informant - the mark of Mary Whysall mother Waingroves, registered 21st May 1866
Marriage of my great great grandparents John and Mary:
on 28th December 1856, at independent Chapel Riddings, District of Belper, John Whysall, age 25 years, Bachelor, Coal miner, Ripley, (no entry for father's name and surname or rank or profession of father), married Mary Cresswell, age 21 years, Spinster, Ripley, father Francis Cresswell deceased, Coal miner. Witnesses James Cresswell and Ruth Cresswell. No signatures all "the mark of....."
Again, this challenges John Whysall's theory above that parents of Mary Cresswell are Robert Cresswell and Fanny Booth, because according to the marriage certificate, Mary's father is Francis Cresswell (deceased). Email from Barrie in Tazmania last night - he believes that Mary Cresswell's parents were Francis and Susannah and she was baptized on 29 June 1837.
So, Glen, that's quite a rambling explanation of 'where it all comes from' and what the conflicts are. I can't fully rationalise it...... but every now and again, i just keep thinking there was maybe another couple called John & mary Whysall......??!
Whizzer
PS - good work on the death of Sarah - I'll look at that reference, but it certainly seems to tie it up.
. Unfortunately have no time to work on it all again until weekend. 