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Messages - DaneGarrod

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Carmarthenshire / Re: Elizabeth Davies - Caio
« on: Friday 21 September 07 18:55 BST (UK)  »
Helen

No, I have no documents other than Wills.  Of Joe Drummond (died 1913) and of his wife, Madeline, (died 1907).  No mention of any other people than their only child (yet another James), or Madeline's seven other children (she was widowed early).  Also have Wills of Joe's parents, Sir James (3rd Baronet) and Mary Eleanor, but no mention of any other bequests there.

You mention Charles Drummond, brother of the 3rd Baronet, so you're going back a generation there.  He retired as a Rear Admiral in 1855, so by 1873/4 he'd be very very elderly - probably dead actually, as born about 1792.  Other brother of this generation is Orlando who died 1831.  It's not this generation, as it's clearly the wrong period.  You're back to Joe now (4th Baronet), and we've dealt with his brothers as being children in 1873/4.  Just perhaps it was 16/17 year old Joe, who was well loved by the ladies as is shown by letters from 1874 onwards.  Yes, the year you speak off is a year he was receiving letters of undying love from distant cousins etc, some 5 years older than his 17 years.  Perhaps they also liked the idea of the land, the house, and the title....

I assume you live in Caio (what the Americans call C-A-ten, I understand!), so when I'm down to Edwinsford next spring, you might like to talk with me in the local pub perhaps.  I shall have some letters etc with me (I always seem to!).

I might be able to get you into the ruined mansion and grounds etc. for a look-see, should you be interested to do so.

Keep in touch.

Dane Garrod Moderator comment: phone number removed - please use the Pm system to exchange such details

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Carmarthenshire / Re: Elizabeth Davies - Caio
« on: Friday 21 September 07 14:31 BST (UK)  »
In reply to the suggestion, and I think it has to be that as you'll see from the data, that a Drummond brother fathered Elizabeth Davies, here is the fullest information.

Apart from the eldest, James (Later Sir James, and known as Joe), the others are Edwin b. 1858  d. 1864, so that let's him out as he was dead long before 1874.  Next is Hugh born 1859 and finally Dudley born 1863.  I think we have to say that these boys aged 14 and 10 when Elizabeth was conceived are not the father, don't you agree?

That only leaves Sir James Williams-Drummond himself, who would have been only 16 when the child was conceived.  Possible, but I feel unlikely, because of his age and especially because you were told a brother of Sir James was the father.  Over to you Caio Researcher for comments.  Oh yes, their father died in 1866, so he's not the father of Elizabeth either.  That's all the boys (one sister- Annabella, born 1854 and eldest child).  No twins in any generation before or after.

Dane.








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Carmarthenshire / Re: Elizabeth Davies - Caio
« on: Sunday 26 August 07 22:48 BST (UK)  »
Hello, Administrator, and thank-you !  I'm also researching the linked family of the Cliftons of Lytham  (they owned all the houses, like Clovelly is still family owned).  All three places connected, but the Lancashire list too long to search for Clifton of Lytham.......do you have search engines in the county tables?  I think not....

Footnote : (Mrs Madeline Clifton (1847-1907), after being widowed at Lytham, married Sir James Drummond, whose maternal grandfather owned Clovelly and Edwinsford.)

Moderator comment: image resized

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Carmarthenshire / Re: Elizabeth Davies - Caio
« on: Sunday 26 August 07 18:50 BST (UK)  »
Message for Helen in Caio :   I am the semi-official researcher for Edwinsford and Drummond family, as assisting the current owner of the mansion since December 2003.  I have the full family tree etc., as well as hundreds of letters, and willing to assist you, as any additional child in the family tree would be knowledge that would help us as well.  In brief, Joe (Sir James) would be 17 in 1874 (born 13 Jan 1857), so just perhaps too young to father the child....but maybe not!  His brothers were younger.  You need to call me at my work desk next week at CABI, Wallingford - 01491 832111.....the switchbord will put you through.  Check out www.cabi.org if you wish, to see we exist and the good work we do!    regards, Dane Garrod, HR Advisor.   

   

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