RootsChat.Com

Hello folks.
This is a real "shot in the dark" with minimal information, but who knows, something might turn up.

My brother was told (years ago, by an uncle, now dead), that a much older first cousin of ours had gone from the UK to South Africa and died there - I don't know where in SA.  Her name was Dorothy M Turner - her maiden name was Dorothy M Rennie, born in late 1929.

Dorothy married a Desmond A B Turner in Pudsey, Yorkshire, UK in 1947 and, as far as I can tell, they only had one child - a son.

However, there is a death record of a Desmond Arthur B Turner in Dewsbury, Yorkshire, UK in 1991 (correct birh year shown) which seems to indicate that they did not emigrate to SA as a family.

I am now wondering if the son emigrated and then later, after Desmond had died in 1991, Dorothy M Turner went to SA to join her son.  The son was born in 1947, so he may still be alive and therefore I don't think he should be named on here (which doesn't help).

If the son had emigrated, I don't suppose it would be before he was 20 in about 1967.  If Dorothy went to SA in 1991, she would have been about 62 years old.

Any help would be appreciated but, on such sparse information, I certainly do not expect anyone to go to great lenghts to answer my query - please.

Regards
Malcolm

Hello once more Lu!

This is just to let you know that I have, at last, found the ship that Elizabeth Duckworth sailed to NZ on - with her two children.  When I found it I didn't know whether to laugh or cry   

You will remember the manifest on which she appeared was attached to one for the "Britannia" - that is how Ancestry had interpreted it.  The next manifest in the month was for the "Corinthic" and it was in the same neat and distinctive handwriting.  I deduced that the ship which Elizabeth had sailed on must have been a Shaw Savill Line ship (like the Corinthic)

I then found a list of all arrivals at Wellington and sorted out the Shaw Savill ships from the list and proceeded to find their London departure manifests over a two year period - from early 1902 to early 1904 - Athenic; Gothic; Delphic; Ionic....Maori; Tokomaru; Waiwera....

I was looking for a stray header sheet with the name of the ship on it.  I found the maifests for all the ships according to their approx 6 month round trip schedules - NOTHING FIT! 

After many hours of page by page searching over 2 days, I was about to give up.  But I had been blind to clear evidence which I should have seen from the beginning.  The ticket numbering system indicated a sailing between August & December 1902 so I went back to that period, only to discover, on closer inspection, that the 'unidentified' manifest was pages 3 to 6 of the "CORINTHIC" passenger list - proved by the cumulative totals of different 'passenger type' columns at the top & bottom of the pages (married, single, male, female &c) .

I was so stuck on the idea of the manifest being attached to the "Britannia" that the "Corinithc" didn't really register, even though the handwriting was the same as the 'unidentified' one.  Two days wasted, but a lesson learned!

I could have saved myself embarrassement by not metioning the above - but what the heck 

So that seems to be the last piece of the story - except the death year of John Eaton, but that doesn't matter.  Once again Lu, thanks for all your help and input 

By the way, the "Corinthic" was on her maiden voyage.

Best regards,
Malcolm

Lu
I don't know whether you are still following this thread, or whether I am pushing my luck with you but.....

You may recall that we found the record of Mrs E Duckworth (27), Robert (3) & Eveline (1) sailing out to Wellington on the 'Britannia' - 2 Novembewr 1902 (per ancestry).

However, careful page by page inspection of the ship manifests show that 'Britannia' sailed via Bombay to Australia (and thus probably via Suez).  The destinations of the ship's passengers on which the Duckworth group sailed included Cape Town, Hobart & Wellington only - a different route.

The result of my search indicates that not one, but two lists of passengers have been tagged on to the 'Britannia' list.  It would appear that the two additional ships did not have a 'front' page with the ship's name, Master &c.  (There are just too many passengers listed for the one ship of the time anyway).

I might be 'pernickety' but I like to be right and I am also a ship enthusiast, so I was wondering if there are any arrival records for the Duckworth family in Wellington in early 1903, and what ship they they were aboard??  Having read a number of postings of yours on other threads, you seem to be a fountain of much knowledge, so I thought I would just ask 

Regards
Malcolm

[PS  The ship on which Robert Duckworth & John Eaton sailed to Sydney on in 1901 has been transcribed as 'Omba' and it should be 'Oruba' - an easily understood error on looking at the hand writing!]

Dear Lu,
From a tentative enquiry about a woman who went off to NZ with her two children - reputedly leaving her husband behind - then returning to the UK, I now have a quite comprehensive history of two related families living in NZ and later Australia.  You have provided me with names of ships they travelled on, their employment, their various addresses, and schools attended by their children.  The only thing that you haven't provided seems to be their telephone numbers... 

Robert & Elizabeth Duckworth went back to the UK and Robert resumed his previous employment as a weaver in the cotton mills, albeit in a different village some distance away from their home town of Blackburn.  Their son, young Robert, was in the army in WW1 and had half his arm blown off, along with a very serious foot injury on the same side - it makes one wonder if that might have been avoided if they had stayed in NZ.

It is interesting to note that Edith Eaton (NZ born) was back with her parents in Australia in 1924.  As previously mentioned, she went back to the UK in the summer of 1922 and her mother travelled alone back to NZ in December 1922.  Edith must have followed along later.

I can now put together the story and type it up for my friend and her mother and I can illustrate it for them too - with the ships that the Duckworth and Eaton families sailed on.  I have a superb photo of the "Wimerra" sailing from Wellington (I think), and photos of the Seydlitz, Britannia, Delphic and Orcades. The only one I cannot find is the "Omba" on which Robert & John first sailed to Sydney in 1901.

My friend's mum (daughter of the young Robert Duckworth) phoned her cousin (daughter of Eveline who went to NZ as a 9 month old) and they had a chat. The cousin has vague memories that Robert & Elizabeth Duckworth wanted to go back to NZ but were persuaded not to by the rest of the family - may or may not be true.  It is known that young Robert always remembered being at school in NZ and wanted to go back.

It is rumoured that the cousin has some school reports (or similar) from Robert's time in NZ but she is apparently a 'difficult' person and a hoarder.  It seems that even if she could be persuaded to find the paperwork and share it, it would take a police search team to find it     That's a bit of a shame!

It is known that Robert Duckworth died in 1934 and Elizabeth re-married in 1938 aged 63, only to be widowed again.  She had a reputation of always moving on - never staying in one place for long.  She ended her days in 1947 aged 72, living in a very old 'one up - one down' cottage in a village called Grassington in Yorkshire.  The bedroom floor had knot-holes in it and you could see down into the room below! 

Thank you for all your effort Lu - I suspect you enjoyed the search.  It is what we do when we can, isn't it.  I remember producing a 12 page document for a lady in Vancouver (very distantly related) who was having difficulty tracing one side of her family.  I got her back to about 1780.  I did something similar for another very distant relative in Ottawa.  And spent 4 years conversing on email with a lady in Arlington, Virginia - providing each other with information.  All good and absorbing fun.  I am a grumpy old bachelor  with health issues which keep me semi-housebound, so I enjoy the chase.  I keep finding new bits about my own family background.

Unless you have something else hidden up your sleeve, I guess that is as far as we can go on ths topic.  I am glad you found refuge from your heat wave in the library - it was productive for me.  However, I cannot wait for you to start feeling chilly - it might mean that I can enjoy a little warmth over here    We have had 3 rotten summers in a row, it is time for a good one.

Best regards & keep well.
Malcolm

Hello again Lu.

Apart from my thanks, I have been asked to convey the gratitude of my friend and her 75 year old mum for the assistance you gave.  The story you provided of the Eaton family, and the the return to the UK of the Duckworth family in 1907 that you found, were the glue that stuck the story together.

I have discovered that the father of Elizabeth Duckworth died in the summer of 1907 and that may have been the catalyst for their return to the UK later in that year.

Like me, you noticed that in 1902, the ticket number of Elizabeth Duckworth was in sequence to a Thomas Craven (and different to the other passengers).  That seemed significant and led to a lot of speculation at that stage - because we still thought that Elizabeth had 'run away' from her husband.

There was a Thomas Craven in Blackburn at the time (sadly not on the 1901 census).  On the 1891 census he lived half way between the Duckworth & Eaton families and may have been a friend of Robert Duckworth and Elizabeth's brother, John Eaton.  It may be that he was impressed by Robert & John and decided to try NZ too.  Travelling with Elizabeth in 1902 would provide advantages to both on the journey.  Any other interpretation would be pure speculation.  It is not known if Thomas Craven stayed in NZ.

There are other questions (inappropriate here) that have no answer, and remain open to similar 'speculation'.

Just as a "by the way", you said you could not find the Eaton family in NZ after 1919.  However, there are shipping records of Rebecca returning to the UK in June of 1922 along with her 19 year old NZ born daughter, Edith.  Rebecca then returned to Wellington later in the year without her daughter - Edith must have decided to stay in the UK! The Eatons must have gone to Australia after 1922 (why would they do that?!)

I have not forgotten that you asked about my user name - Tongariro.  No, I am not an ex-pat.  I was a Radio Officer in the Merchant Navy in the 1960's & 70's.  One of my ships was the Tongariro and I spent a short time on her sister ship, Taupo.  I also worked on a ship which ran between NZ & Japan.  Auckland being the 'home' port of the service.  I spent many happy days in NZ ports and many more in ports on that small offshore island (Australia I think it is called 

Thanks again and best regards
Malcolm