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Hello, Auchencrieff - what a coincidence!  I'm not connected to the Shileds but I am in the process of helping a friend in that research!  I live in Bathgate.

Margaret Boyle  died, as you know, in Russell's Row, Bathgate, on 6Nov1864. She was the widow of Terence Shields, a coal miner.  Her death was reported was reported by her son, Peter, who married Catherine Brogan in 1863 in Bathgate.

Margaret was interred - interment no. 733 - in common ground in the Bathgate Paulville Cemetery  - Lair no. N37 - on 8Nov1864. She was aged 67 years and described in the Burial Register as "wife of the late Tery Shields, miner, Airdrie".

The person I'm helping is also Peter Shields who is descended from John, Peter Shields and Catherine Brogan's first son - born in Bathgate in 1864.


I see you're in Canada - do you know Cathie Grant?


Tom

Hi.

I'm a bit late coming to this discussion - found it while browsing.  This might help.

A David Clarke was baptised 26Jan1834 at The Woodchapel Church of Ireland at Lisnamorrow.  His parents were William Clarke, farmer in Ballymulderg, and Jane, whose maiden name is not recorded.  There is not a corresponding marriage in The Woods records which suggests that they married in Jane's church wherever that was.  Lisnamorrow and Ballymulderg are townlands a few miles down the Magherafelt/Ballyronan road.  They also had a Margery baptised 24Apr1825.  And a William Clarke died at Ballymulderg aged 89yrs in 1884.

Good hunting.

mr-aitch

Info needed to order a cert is:

Name, Registration district, Registration date - quarter and year, Volume and Page number.

Dara.

Hi,

That works fine for England and Wales  but I know from personal experience that GRONI's response is "we don't work that way".  Their website at

http://www.groni.gov.uk/certificate-fees

makes it very clear that entry number and date of registration must be supplied for the reduced fee of £6

mr-aitch

... page 3

Back to what we know.

Monica offered the IGI entry for the birth of Elizabeth McVICKER in 1866 albeit with mother's name DAWSON rather than the expected DAVIDSON.  That has a batch number of C701297 which is definitely an extraction from the BMD Indexes for 1866 and, as I said, many of these are badly stained - probably from water damage - and very difficult to read. I can readily see DAWSON being mistaken for DAVIDSON.

I can see an IGI entry for the birth of Richard DICKSON - 7Aug1871 in Antrim. Parents - Thomas DICKSON and Margaret McVICKAR.  Again this has a batch number I can't identify.

In the LDS civil registration indexes which Monica mentioned there is a marriage for George MARSHALL and Isabella McKILLOP - 1847 Ballymena volume 2 page 111.  That implies a Protestant marriage because RC marriages weren't registered until 1864 and that fits with what we know.

The LDS extraction C701267 records a birth for Margaret MARSHALL 20Oct1865 in Clogh, (Dunaghy, Ballymoney Parish) to George and Isabella.  We're back to my "Bermuda" triangle.

How about this one?  Again from the BMD indexes:

District of Ballymena: death in 1869 of Henry McVICKAR aged 29yrs  (volume 1 page 106)  - see 1851 Antrim census

Griffith's Valuation (1853-1865) has interesting entries:

George MARSHALL, tenant in Culnafey, Ballyscullion Grange
Thomas DICKSON, tenant in Drumanduff, Ballinderry
Archy McKILLOP, tenant in Dunaghy, Ballymoney
Daniel McKILLOP, tenant in Ballymoney, Ballymoney
and a number of McKILLOPs in Loughguile, Loughguile - John, Alexander, Patrick, Eneas, Denis, John, Hugh and Daniel

All of these are, of course, in my triangle.

Nearly forgot - clue from the Cemetery records:

Death of Isabella McKILLOP (Uphall Dist. no. 672 entry no. 38)
Date & Place: 20Feb1900 -30 Haligate
Age: 52yrs (sic - but see cemetery record)
Status: widow
Spouse: George MARSHALL, miner
Father: John McKILLOP, labourer, deceased
Mother: Sarah McKILLOP, m.s GLASGOW, deceased
Informant: D. MARSHALL, son, present

A search to check if they were in Scotland earlier produced nothing in 1891 but this in 1881:

1881 census
Bothwell  Dist. no. 625/1 book 7 page 16
4 Chapel Sq.
Isabella MARSHALL, head, wid, 57, b. Ireland
George MARSHALL, son, unm, 20, fireman, b. Holytown LKS
John MARSHALL, son, unm, 18, labourer, b. Holytown LKS
Daniel MARSHALL, son, unm, 16, b. Holytown LKS
Ann MARSHALL, daur, unm, 13, servant, b. Holytown LKS
John KNOULES, boarder, unm, 19, boilerman, b. Ireland

Intriguing!  Looks like our family but the birthplaces for the children are wrong!  However, the John MARSHALL turns up in Uphall, having been born in Ireland, in 1891 living with a MARKS family and then in 1901 he's living in Bathgate with a McKILLOP (born in Ireland) family!

Enough from me!  I'm told that my biggest failing is I'm intoxicated with the exuberance of my own verbosity!

mcvicars, you should have a look at the website of West Lothian Family History Society where they offer to assist, where they can, anyone visiting West Lothian for Homecoming 2009

www.wlfhs.org.uk

Hope all this helps.

mr-aitch

Hi, All - I'm hoping I can offer some information which might help clear up various questions and point to sources for further research in Ireland.  I'm taking an interest for two reasons - first, I live in West Lothian and am always happy to assist, when I can, those doing West Lothian research, and, second, I have an oblique interest in the Annie Morrow, nee Marshall, who was a witness at Richard Dickson and Mary McVicar's marriage.  Here's what I have - hope it doesn't get too long.

Tried to send but "message too long exceeds 5000 characters".  So this is page 1 ...

Birth of Mary McVICKER
15Oct1868, Antrim
Henry McVICKER=Margaret DAVIS
This has a batch no. C011867 which I haven't been able to identify and the mother's name is incorrect according to Mary's two marriage certs. and death cert. which clearly state DAVIDSON.  However, if the IGI entry comes from the published BMD indexes which were filmed by the LDS then I can understand why the name could be wrong because many of the indexes are very difficult to read and many are unreadable.

1st Marriage of Mary McVICAR - 'X' her mark (Uphall 1891 Dist. no. 672 entry no. 3)
Date: 31Dec1890 at 83 Haligate
Form: Church of Scotland
Age & status: 21yrs. - spinster of Broxburn
Occup: domestic servant
Father: Henry McVICAR, labourer, deceased
Mother: Margaret McVICAR, m.s. DAVIDSON, still alive
Spouse: Richard DICKSON - 'X' his mark
Age & Status: 20 yrs. - bachelor of Broxburn
Occup: miner
Father: Thomas DICKSON, labourer, still alive
Mother: Margaret DICKSON, m.s. McVICAR, still alive
Minister: Wm. Johnston, Uphall Parish
Witnesses: Samuel CHAMBERS; Annie MORROW

1891 census
Uphall Dist. no. 672 book 4 page 10
62 Haligate
Rich. DICKSON, head, mar, 20, shale miner, b. Ireland
Mary DICKSON, wife, mar, 21, b. Ireland

Children
Thomas, b. 8Dec1891 at 62 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 384); d. 7Apr1897 at 4 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 51)
Elizabeth, b. 25Apr1894 at 83 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 127)
Henry, b. 28Jul1896 at 3 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 272)
Richard, b. 27feb1899 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 87)

Death of Richard DICKSON (Uphall 1891 Dist. no. 672 entry no. 77)
Date & Place: 26Jun1898 - 49 Haligate
Age: 26yrs
Occup: miner
Status: married
Spouse: Mary McVICAR
Father: Thomas DICKSON, labourer, still alive
Mother: Margaret DICKSON, m.s. McVICAR, still alive
Informant: Robert McNEILL, brother-in-law, Roman Camps

I suspect Mary and Richard were cousins.  Why?  Here's a family in the townland of Moneyduff, Dunaghy, Ballymoney Parish Antrim, in the 1851 census:

Z14 MONEYDUFF TOWNLAND
WILLIAM MCVICARS /HEAD/M/40//LABOURER/ANT/
MARY MCVICARS /WIFE/M//38/NONE/ANT/
JAMES MCVICARS /SON/U/18//LINEN WEAVER/ANT/
ROBERT MCVICARS /SON/U/15//LINEN WEAVER/ANT/
HENRY MCVICARS /SON/U/12//LINEN WEAVER/ANT/
ADAM MCVICARS /SON/U/9//WINDING SPOOLS/ANT/
MARGARET MCVICARS /DAUGHTER/U//5/NONE/ANT/
MARY MCVICARS /DAUGHTER/U//2/NONE/ANT/
MARGARET HENRY /SERVANT/U//11/WINDING SPOOLS/ANT/

The importance of Dunaghy I'll come back to.

2nd Marriage of Mary McVICAR - 'X' her mark (Uphall 1900 Dist. no. 672 entry no. 50
Date: 9Nov1900 at Broxburn
Form: Free Church of Scotland
Age & status: 32yrs. - widowed of Broxburn
Occup: n/r
Father: Richard McVICAR, farm servant, deceased
Mother: Mary McVICAR, m.s. DAVIDSON, still alive
Spouse: Daniel MARSHALL
Age & Status: 32yrs. - bachelor of Broxburn
Occup: boiler fireman
Father: George MARSHALL, miner, deceased
Mother: Isabella MARSHALL, m.s. McKILLOP, deceased
Minister: Robert Erskine, Broxburn U.F. (First) Church
Witnesses: John MURDOCH; Maria McKELVIE
(The forenames for Mary's parents are obviously incorrect.)

1901 census
Uphall Dist. no. 672 book 4 page 6
49 Haligate
Daniel MARSHALL, head, mar, 33, steam boiler (fireman), b. Ireland
Mary MARSHALL, wife - twice marr, twice mar, 32, b. Ireland
Eliza DIXON, daur, 7, scholar?, b. Uphall WLN
Henry DIXON, son, 5, scholar?, b. Uphall WLN
Richard DIXON, son, 2, b. Uphall WLN
(These 3 are bracketed together with the not "by 1st husband")
Patrick NEIL, lodger deleted and "boarder" substituted, single, 19, shale miner, b. Ireland
(Remember Patrick NEIL for later)
(It was a requirement of the 1901 census that a place of birth furth of Scotland should include both the county and country of birth.  This enumerator was rather lax - more's the pity.  But there's more than one way to skin a cat ;-)

Children
Maggie, b. 8Jul1901 at 49 Haligate (uphall 672 - 274); d. 24Jul1901 at 49 Haligate  (Uphall 672 - 118)
Isabella, b. 4May1903 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 143)
Annie, b. 26Apr1906 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 182)
Margaret Jane, b. 1Jan1909 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 22); d. 1Feb1909 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 16)
Matilda, b. 10Jul1911 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 222)

There don't appear to be marriages or deaths for the 3 girls who survived.

In all cases the mother is named as Mary MARSHALL, previously DICKSON, m.s. McVICAR

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