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Messages - Aks

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1
The Common Room / Re: Where to go?
« on: Friday 31 January 25 06:26 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you very much Annie and Spendlove for your precious advice. This is very useful. Indeed, it might be simpler to search for documents of interest on the National Archives website and then either order them in advance of a visit or indeed just ask them remotely for copies.

It is indeed curious that Martin Farnell's marriage and bankruptcy occurred at pretty much the same time. I think the questions I have, to which I may not find answers, are:

(1) Why did he marry Frances Matthews at the time of his bankruptcy, when he was about 58 years old and she was about 34, with an illegitimate daughter, Phoebe, born in 1796 (baptised in Lullington), who became my ancestor.
(2) According to his will, made in 1815, he left a certain amount of property, even though he was declared bankrupt in 1805. How did he come to still have all this property?
(3) How did he come to end up in Four Oaks in Sutton Coldfield, Warwickshire, and be buried (as far as I am aware) in Clifton Campville, Staffordshire?

Sorry, I am just trying to clarify my own questions here!

Thank you again for all of your help.

Yes, I have access to Ancestry but not Findmypast.

Best wishes,

Alan

2
The Common Room / Re: Where to go?
« on: Wednesday 29 January 25 17:19 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you Andy, Lizzie, Spendlove, Annie, KGarrad, and mckha489, and my apologies for the slow response. Thank you Annie for your understanding of the many counties predicament.  :) I suppose if you take it logically there is no problem, but when I see all these different counties involved ...

I think it must be the marriage licence that I have and which Lizzie refers to. It says he is of the parish of Lullington, which I think corresponds to where he was living at the time, i.e. Coton-in-the-Elms, I believe.

I suppose I need to figure out what it is that I most want to find out about him.  :-\

Annie, do you mean that one can also just ask the records office from a distance to look things up?

Many thanks,

Alan


3
The Common Room / Where to go?
« on: Monday 27 January 25 17:53 GMT (UK)  »
I have an ancestor (well almost, I'm descended from his adopted daughter) called Martin Farnell, who at one point in his life was the High Sheriff of Derbyshire. I believe he lived in Coton-in-the-Elms in Derbyshire, but I think he was born in Appleby Magna, Leicestershire, in 1747. According to the documents I have found, he was married in Melbourne, Derbyshire, in 1805, and died in Clifton Campville, Staffordshire, in 1815. However, his will says "I Martin Farnell of Four Oaks in the parish of Sutton Coldfield in the County of Warwick"! I also think he was involved in the running of a bank in Ashby-de-la-Zouch in Leicestershire. So many counties! (At least, these seem to be the current counties: whether they were then, I don't know.)

It's been difficult finding documents about him, especially as I live in Luxembourg, however I expect to be in the Leicester area next summer. I was wondering if anyone could advise me as to which records office (or other facility) I might expect to find more information about him if I were to visit there in person. I have not been able to find any documents linking him to this bank and I'm also not entirely sure for his birth, so presumably the best place to go would be the Leicestershire records office?

Many thanks,

Alan

4
Derbyshire / Re: Martin Farnell of Coton-in-the-Elms
« on: Wednesday 14 August 24 17:48 BST (UK)  »
Thank you Trish and Ashtone, including for your advice about the parish records. Sorry, I only just saw your replies.

Thank you especially Trish for the remark about them not necessarily being twins. I didn't realise that. I just assumed that Martin and Joseph (son) must be twins. Also, for the interesting information about the place names.  :)

Thank you especially Ashtone for the information about the oldest son named John. Also "probate be made to Susannah Farnell". I could not find a baptism for John. However, Joseph and Susannah were married in 1742 and Martin and Joseph (son) were baptised in 1747, so he could have been born between these years.

5
Dear Dave (@ProvincialNotesDave),

In case you are still around, I'm wondering where you found some of the details that you posted back in 2020, such as the fact that the Ashby-de-la-Zouch Bank existed from 1790-1805 and was owned by the Farnell brothers. I do have Martin's will which someone helped me transcribe a few years ago.

You wrote that "Martin Farnell was the eldest of four brothers that owned the Ashby-de-la-Zouch Bank (1790-1805). Joseph died in 1802 and John between his will dated 13th April 1803, and probate on 25th August 1804. Martin was declared bankrupt the following March. Thomas was the fourth and youngest brother."

In my research I found that seemingly Martin had a twin brother, Joseph, and several other brothers: Thomas (1749) who may have died as an infant, Thomas Wagstaff (1752), Henry (1754) and William (1756). It seems like their parents were Joseph Farnell and Susannah Newby.

I found the will of John Farnell (though not the probate), which is difficult for me to read, but does seem to mention that he had a brother called Martin. However, I cannot find the birth or Christening of John.

Thanks,

Alan




6
Derbyshire / Re: Martin Farnell of Coton-in-the-Elms
« on: Monday 12 August 24 10:16 BST (UK)  »
Thank you Trish. Would the actual parish records provide more details?

It seems like Martin had a twin brother, Joseph, and several other brothers: Thomas (1749) who may have died as an infant as you suggest, Thomas Wagstaff (1752), Henry (1754) and William (1756). It seems like his parents were Joseph Farnell and Susannah Newby.

I noted in passing that Church Flatts Farm, which is less than a mile south-east of Coton-in-the-Elms, is the farthest point from the sea in Great Britain!  :) Also, there are so many interesting place names in this area, such as Botany Bay, Melbourne, Appleby Magna and even Ashby-de-la-Zouch seems quite quaint to me! I wonder where they all come from.

7
Derbyshire / Re: Martin Farnell of Coton-in-the-Elms
« on: Monday 12 August 24 07:34 BST (UK)  »
Thank you Ashtone and Hepburn. He died on 16 Dec 1815. I have not found any other marriages for him and in his will he only mentions Frances his wife and his adopted daughter Phoebe. He refers to her as "my adopted Daughter Phoebe Farnell or usually so called (a child of my said Wife before my intermarriage with her)": not sure what is meant by intermarriage as opposed to just marriage. Phoebe's baptism record states: "9 May 1796 - bapt. Phoebe spurious of Frances Mathews".

What I can't find is any record of Martin's birth or baptism, but there are some indications that he originally hailed from Ashby-de-la-Zouch: should I have posted in the Leicestershire group? Which records office would deal with Ashby-de-la-Zouch? I notice that  Ashby-de-la-Zouch is listed here for both Leicestershire and Derbyshire.

Hmm, I just found a record for a Martin Farnill born in Appleby Magna, Leicestershire, baptised on 25 September 1747, parents  Jos and Susanna. I wonder if this could be him. This seems to be about 6 or 7 miles from Ashby-de-la-Zouch. This is apparently in the Leicestershire Parish Registers, 1533-1991. If anyone has access to this record, I would be interested in seeing it.

8
Derbyshire / Re: Martin Farnell of Coton-in-the-Elms
« on: Sunday 11 August 24 17:21 BST (UK)  »
Thank you very much, Ashtone.

9
Derbyshire / Martin Farnell of Coton-in-the-Elms
« on: Sunday 11 August 24 16:45 BST (UK)  »
I would like to find any information about the parents or siblings of Martin Farnell, the adoptive father of one of my ancestors, who I believe was born in Coton-in-the-Elms in about 1748. He married Frances Mathews in Melbourne or Lullington, Derbyshire, on 17 Mar 1805. Frances, born in Edingale in about 1771, was the mother of Phoebe Mathews, her illegitimate daughter and my ancestor. On 29 April 1789, Martin Farnell became the high sheriff of Derbyshire until 29 January 1790, which seems slightly unusual because in most cases they were appointed from January or February for about a year.

I have not so far been able to identify Martin's parents or siblings. It's been a few years since I really searched for this, and I was wondering if any useful online records, e.g. parish records, might be available now, which might have this information? I'm assuming he was born in Coton-in-the-Elms, but he might have been born in another nearby locality. I seem to remember seeing the Farnell's mentioned in places like Ashby-de-la-Zouch, possibly as bankers. Martin later declared bankruptcy. I also have his will, which indicates that he had adopted Phoebe.

Thanks,

Alan

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