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Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs / Gt gt gmother Lydia Friend Of Bletchingley
« on: Monday 22 June 20 23:16 BST (UK) »
Help dating possibly Lydia Friend Of Bletchingley
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Travelling People / Re: WILSON COOPER
« on: Monday 23 March 20 23:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi I have connections to the Cooper family and have not come across Wilson being used more likely a mis transcription of Nelson which was quite popular name in the family.
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Travelling People / Re: The Sons of Mitcham's Travellers Killed in the Great War 1914-18
« on: Wednesday 30 November 16 14:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi
I have information to pass on re Frederick Scott ;-
He married Naomi Mills in St Marks Church Mitcham in August 1915 he was in the Royal Fusiliers.
There were a couple of candidates on the war graves site but a kind researcher looked up the records held at Surrey & we managed to pin him down. He is recorded in the volunteers record for April/June1915 Rgt - Royal Fusiliers age 27 Occupation Hawker Birthplace Fulham attestation Wandsworth of 26 Fountain Rd Mitcham.
His casualty details Pte 17733 Royal Fusiliers 12th battalion died 14/10/1915
cemetery Reninghelst Churchyard Extention
I have information to pass on re Frederick Scott ;-
He married Naomi Mills in St Marks Church Mitcham in August 1915 he was in the Royal Fusiliers.
There were a couple of candidates on the war graves site but a kind researcher looked up the records held at Surrey & we managed to pin him down. He is recorded in the volunteers record for April/June1915 Rgt - Royal Fusiliers age 27 Occupation Hawker Birthplace Fulham attestation Wandsworth of 26 Fountain Rd Mitcham.
His casualty details Pte 17733 Royal Fusiliers 12th battalion died 14/10/1915
cemetery Reninghelst Churchyard Extention
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Travelling People / Re: Cinnaminta Cooper
« on: Sunday 30 August 15 10:58 BST (UK) »
Hi Wardming
I'm a bit confused you say you have Cinnaminta's marriage certificate this would show the name of the bride and grooms father not mother.
I'm a bit confused you say you have Cinnaminta's marriage certificate this would show the name of the bride and grooms father not mother.
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Travelling People / Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« on: Sunday 14 June 15 14:54 BST (UK) »
From Boxiana
A fight between George Cooper (a Gipsy) and the Guildford Butcher Boy on Weds 28th May 1823 at Epsom Downs for a belly full and a blanket. This was the first day of the races. George Cooper said to be a cousin of the two proceeding and certainly residing among the same horde on Epsom Downs.
A fight between George Cooper (a Gipsy) and the Guildford Butcher Boy on Weds 28th May 1823 at Epsom Downs for a belly full and a blanket. This was the first day of the races. George Cooper said to be a cousin of the two proceeding and certainly residing among the same horde on Epsom Downs.
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Travelling People / Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« on: Friday 12 June 15 11:26 BST (UK) »
Hi I just wanted to add that the Jem Cooper Owen Swift match is pictured on the front cover of Famous Fights Magazine Vol V11 No 99. I also think that Duke might be their brother.
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Travelling People / Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« on: Friday 12 June 15 11:06 BST (UK) »
Hi Richard Great thank you I am pretty confident then that its her.
It was interesting about what you said about James as in James & Harriet being Norwood Sams brother that would make sense in terms of the patch they travelled for some reason I had thought of him as being Jacks brother and it was 2 sisters marrying 2 brothers.
I am pretty sure that Jack did have a brother James going by Jem which was then the nickname.
I have been digging in the newspapers too and old boxing books;-
This is The Sportsmans Magazine August 1845
There were four gipsy Coopers the degree of their relationship we cannot tell. Jack Cooper was the best known who beat Scroggins, Cabbage & West Country Dick but was defeated by Bishop Sharp & Young Dutch Sam ( Young Sam also beat Tom Cooper). Jem Cooper beaten by Owen Swift when Owen was a boy is an unknown to the fancy. George Cooper beaten by Dick Curtis at Epsom is also an illustrious obscure being one of those rough and ready " coves of the bush" who were in vogue resorted to the races etc to fight for a purse.
I have also from Bartley Gormans book King of the Gypsies the material I believe coming from Famous Fights Magazine " The Coopers were and still are a famous fighting tribe from Hampshire and in the early 1800s they included Jacks brothers Jem and Tom and cousins George and Tom."
Boxing records are patchy but I found that the Swift match was 4th Aug 1829 & Jem also fought George Lenny June 1822 so all three brothers were fighting around the same time.( I have also found mention of George who I think was Daniels son.)
Also there is mention of James Cooper a gypsy in the Morning Chronicle 26 May 1836 where he is found on Epsom Downs standing over a man named Stephens and I think this is the Gypsy Stephens that partnered Trinity.
It was interesting about what you said about James as in James & Harriet being Norwood Sams brother that would make sense in terms of the patch they travelled for some reason I had thought of him as being Jacks brother and it was 2 sisters marrying 2 brothers.
I am pretty sure that Jack did have a brother James going by Jem which was then the nickname.
I have been digging in the newspapers too and old boxing books;-
This is The Sportsmans Magazine August 1845
There were four gipsy Coopers the degree of their relationship we cannot tell. Jack Cooper was the best known who beat Scroggins, Cabbage & West Country Dick but was defeated by Bishop Sharp & Young Dutch Sam ( Young Sam also beat Tom Cooper). Jem Cooper beaten by Owen Swift when Owen was a boy is an unknown to the fancy. George Cooper beaten by Dick Curtis at Epsom is also an illustrious obscure being one of those rough and ready " coves of the bush" who were in vogue resorted to the races etc to fight for a purse.
I have also from Bartley Gormans book King of the Gypsies the material I believe coming from Famous Fights Magazine " The Coopers were and still are a famous fighting tribe from Hampshire and in the early 1800s they included Jacks brothers Jem and Tom and cousins George and Tom."
Boxing records are patchy but I found that the Swift match was 4th Aug 1829 & Jem also fought George Lenny June 1822 so all three brothers were fighting around the same time.( I have also found mention of George who I think was Daniels son.)
Also there is mention of James Cooper a gypsy in the Morning Chronicle 26 May 1836 where he is found on Epsom Downs standing over a man named Stephens and I think this is the Gypsy Stephens that partnered Trinity.
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Travelling People / Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« on: Wednesday 10 June 15 19:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Richard Its very hard to work out relationships when you do not have anything concrete like a baptism but to my mind having had a look at the 1851 census for Kesia/Uriah I'm wondering if she would be the previous generation as she gives age of 55 but on saying that Uriah should be a little bit older than he says he is. I remembered from the Ham baptisms that there was a Kezia baptising children ( no father mentioned) down on IGI as Kossiah & they do tie up with the Junix's 3 daughters Susan, Marianna/Mary Ann & Elizabeth all baptised as Cooper. You say that Mr Junix was a butcher did he have any premises in Shoreditch do you know I was wondering if it is this ladies death cert that I have & the informant said he lived in Shoreditch.
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Travelling People / Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« on: Monday 08 June 15 23:12 BST (UK) »
Hi Richard
Thanks for all the info lots to think about there!
I also found newspaper report in the Worcester Chronicle 1851 about a tribe of gipsies calling themselves William Cooper, Spicer Cooper other names down as Cope but must surely be Cooper Hannah, James & five small children they were charged with stealing a quantity of potatoes.
The name Junix seems to be attatched to Elishas line I have in my ntes that Elisha & Truffenni had a Kesi perhaps Kesia? That's who I thought that death cert I mentioned might be.
Have you seen on the Romany Jib website the marriage of Leonard Cooper Mattys brother & Philedelphia Smith her father was John Smith Rat Catcher.
Thanks for all the info lots to think about there!
I also found newspaper report in the Worcester Chronicle 1851 about a tribe of gipsies calling themselves William Cooper, Spicer Cooper other names down as Cope but must surely be Cooper Hannah, James & five small children they were charged with stealing a quantity of potatoes.
The name Junix seems to be attatched to Elishas line I have in my ntes that Elisha & Truffenni had a Kesi perhaps Kesia? That's who I thought that death cert I mentioned might be.
Have you seen on the Romany Jib website the marriage of Leonard Cooper Mattys brother & Philedelphia Smith her father was John Smith Rat Catcher.