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Messages - Pete T

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1
Norfolk Lookup Requests / Re: Travis from Wyndonham 1825 birth
« on: Tuesday 07 August 07 21:19 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Pete T on Thursday 05 July 07 20:20 BST (UK)
By the time we get to the 1851 census, there is a Robert Drake, shoemaker, in Norwich -married to Mary Anne. The convicted Robert married Martha Anne, but names can change.
I really ought to read and post more carefully. According to the original records he was already married -to a Martha Anne.
But if his marriage was considered annulled, then it makes sense that he was now "interested in"  Mary Anne Alfred. Looking up her records, she was convicted in 1844 on a 7 year term, but was at some point pardoned. (The records are not clear as to when), but it must have been in 1850 or earlier. So she would have been free to return to the UK with him when he was pardoned.
However I've now found that Robert Drake's original 1842 marriage in Norwich was to a Mary Anne Elizabeth Pointer , despite the records saying Martha Anne. And in the 1871 census his wife is named as Mary Anne E Drake. So maybe the relationship with Mary Alfred did not work out and he returned to Norwich to live with his UK wife.
It could of course be that there are two Robert Drakes here, but I think that the combination of name, correct age and profession (shoemaker) are enough to identify him.
Any comments anybody?
Pete

2
Norfolk Lookup Requests / Re: Travis from Wyndonham 1825 birth
« on: Saturday 28 July 07 13:54 BST (UK)  »
Got him!
More records have just been released on Ancestory.
It looks like he was pardoned after serving 6 years and 3 months. That would have been May/June 1850. Just enough time to get back to Norwich before the 1851 census

3
Norfolk Lookup Requests / Re: Travis from Wyndonham 1825 birth
« on: Thursday 05 July 07 20:20 BST (UK)  »
Hi there,
Yes, PDF arrived safely.
Right, obviously there are more than one person called Robert Drake.
The Robert Drake of Wymondham (who lived near us)  is obviously not the same one, as he is in the 1841 census as being aged 10. His father is a publican.
The Sheep Stealing Robert Drake is recorded as being 21 when convicted in 1844. Following that one through on the same census, there is only one Robert Drake of the right age in Norfolk in and he is at Cold Harbour, near Ludham -which is a very obscure corner of the Norfolk Broads. He is listed as an Apprentice, but listed next to him is a Thomas Ford -shoemaker. Robert is listed as having been born abroad.
By the time we get to the 1851 census, there is a Robert Drake, shoemaker, in Norwich -married to Mary Anne. The convicted Robert married Martha Anne, but names can change.
I'm not familiar with convict records, but I do note that the page appears to have been signed off in either 1849 or 1850. Could he have been released and returned to England?
Intriguing!!!!
Thanks a lot,
Pete

4
Norfolk Lookup Requests / Re: Travis from Wyndonham 1825 birth
« on: Tuesday 03 July 07 09:02 BST (UK)  »
Thanks
The event looks fun! Very similar to what we do here in the UK -only we have REAL castles, abbeys and battlefieldsto play in. Have a look at this... (if it doesn't open easily, press "refresh". I'm the apothecary  8)
http://www.itvlocal.com/central/news/?player=CEN_News_26&void=70348

5
Norfolk Lookup Requests / Re: Travis from Wyndonham 1825 birth
« on: Monday 30 April 07 08:34 BST (UK)  »
No problems, no hurry  :)
Our local town archivist has now also become fascinated by this slice of local history.
Best wishes
Pete

6
Norfolk Lookup Requests / Re: Travis from Wyndonham 1825 birth
« on: Friday 13 April 07 21:14 BST (UK)  »
Got it!!!!!
The trial was held on Wednesday March 27th 1844 at the Lent Assizes held in Norwich. (March 25th was the opening of the session). The case is reported in the Saturday March 30th edition of the Norfolk Chronicle exactly as follows:

Quote
SHEEP STEALING. -Robert Drake and Thomas Travers [not in the calendar] were indicted for having stolen, on the 10th of March, a sheep, the property of Mr. Matthews, of Wymondham. -Mr Evans prosecuted, and Mr W.Cooper defended the prisoner Drake. -The sheep was taken away, killed, and the skin and part of the carcase were found in a field belonging to Mr Atkins. Some mutton fat and bones were found in Drake's house; also some mutton in a chest, wrapped in a handkerchief.The bones were found to correspond with the part of the carcase found in the field; and the shoes of the prisoners fitted impressions which were made in and from the field. -Guilty. To be transported ten years.
Note the different spelling of Travis.
The only Robert Drake from Wymondham lived in White Horse Street, his father was a publican -and if it is the same one, he was 14 at the time of the offense (you could check the convict records). White Horse Street is about half a mile  yards from the railway station -but what is just as fascinating for me is that it is at the end of the road where I live.
The Atkins farm appears to have been at Coston, which is about 5 miles away from Wymondham, but again is about half a mile away from the railway line. Haven't tracked down Mr Matthews, but it is still common practice to graze your sheep on someone else's land. March is of course lambing time.
There is a Thomas Travers of the right age in the 1841 census, recorded as staying in what appear to be slum dwellings called "Peerless Place" in the seediest part of Shoreditch London. Interestingly he has no place of birth recorded and his occupation is given as (I think) MS whatever that means. As some of the the women are given as FS, the M presumably stands for male. Anyone any idea what the S stands for?????
Anyway, hope that all helps. I've got a scan of the court report if you'd like it.
Best wishes,
Pete


7
Norfolk Lookup Requests / Re: Travis from Wyndonham 1825 birth
« on: Friday 06 April 07 21:55 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: otters on Friday 06 April 07 20:53 BST (UK)
Sorry to but in on this but I wondered if Pete was related to the Travis family from the Pontefract area.   
Not that I'm aware of, but as it is a relatively unusual name (in the UK at least) there will be some common roots somewhere.
My own Travises come from the Sheffield, Doncaster area (not very far away from Pontefract), but just to confuse matters my partner also has strong Travis ancestry. But her's come from the Liverpool area -and (back on theme) family legend says that there is a strong (protestant) Irish connection, although I have yet to trace it.
Sue, do you have any links to the family?

8
Norfolk Lookup Requests / Re: Travis from Wyndonham 1825 birth
« on: Friday 06 April 07 16:55 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for the complement Gordon.
I know that us Travises are a pretty hardy lot, and I hope I'll still be able to father children at the age of 80!!!!  8)
Seriously though, thanks for the research. First historical reference I've seen to the name locally in the 18th or early 19th century. So he may just be a local lad -but if so the name seems to have died out, probably with him. Does anyone know if the 1841 census records for Norfolk are complete, or do they have big bits missing?
Another thought has occurred to me. If my hunch that he was working on the building of the railway is correct, it is always possible that he was Irish....
Another useful reference could also be http://archives.norfolk.gov.uk/documents/pdf/NRO014_Transportation_to_Australia.pdf but I note that they say that the records could be a bit patchy. But i should be able to get into Norwich after the Easter break so I can have a look.
Incidentally, March 25th 1844 was a Monday, and I think was a fortnight before Easter that year. Which looks like he was tried at the beginning of the Easter Assizes of that year.

9
Norfolk Lookup Requests / Re: Travis from Wyndonham 1825 birth
« on: Friday 06 April 07 10:53 BST (UK)  »
Hi there
Right, if he was 21 in March 1844 he would have been 19 in March 1841 when the census was taken. And the only 19 year old Thomas Travis recorded  :-\ is from Liverpool, and occupation "jSmith" (Junior Smith????) parents John and Susannah. John Travis is also a "smith". Whatever your records say I am absolutely certain that he was not originally from Wymondham
The occupation of bricklayer is a puzzle, but if my theory that this is connected with the building of the railway is correct, that project would have used both metal workers to lay the track and bricklayers to build the stations. So he may have, errr.. multi-tasked as we would now say. I'm not sure how much local labour was used, but if my memory is correct the railways were usually built by specialist gangs that travelled the country
The date of March 24th is very helpful, as the original court records should be available.He was probably tried in Norwich Assizes, quite a few people were transported from here, having been held in the old castle jail. Also there may well be some magistrates committal documents in our town archives.
Anyway, I'll try to find out more over the next few weeks, and I'll keep you posted

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