RootsChat.Com

An Update:-

In her Will, Lancelot Robert Brown's widow Anna Maria Brown named their 3 daughters as her beneficiaries.  Her Effects under £10,000.

Lancelot Robert's 1863 Will was similar, including his Wife, plus £1,000 to his Godson Lancelot Charles Brown, and an annuity to his sister Susannah Brown.  So Susan was still alive and presumably unmarried.  What was unexpected was an 1867 Codicil to the effect he had lent his brother Thomas Charles Brown divers sums amounting with interest to about £907 for the benefit of Lancelot Charles Brown, and that the legacy of £1,000 was to be held by the Executors as security until the £907 etc be well and truly paid.  Effects under £9,000 including Leaseholds.

Thomas Charles Brown left everything to his dear wife Fanny Brown, his Effects under £450, and Fanny, otherwise Frances, left everything to their son Lancelot Charles Brown.  Her Effects under £1,000.

JOH.

As an aside, Thomas Charles Brown seems to have been about 34 when he married Frances Page, about 23.  One could perhaps speculate if he had had a previous marriage.

Although not seemingly adding much to Livia’s overall quest, the following may be thought of interest.

Augustus Frederick Skipworth came out with his wife Susan Johnson from Cornwall on the Baboo in 1840.  At least 4 of their children, including Eliza and Daniel, were born in South Australia.

Eliza married Philip Barbary and their daughter Beatrice Barbary married William Henry Pearce, 2nd youngest son of Samuel Pearce.

Daniel married Susan Barbary and their son Alfred Skipworth married Edith Eleanor Pearce, youngest daughter of Samuel Pearce.

So William Henry Pearce and Edith Eleanor Pearce were brother and sister of Alexander Lawrance Pearce and (see above) Arthur Elliott Pearce, 4 of the 13 children of Samuel Isaac Pearce – and their descendants are of course all related.

Although Jeenie is one, these descendants could be considered more remote and obscure to Livia’s overall quest.

It also appears that John Snell and Sarah Elizabeth had one, or two, more children, making the total 17, or 18.

There was Jessie Robina born 4 Jun 1876 at Cocoanut to John Snell and Sarah Elizabeth

and there was a William Sell born to John and Elizabeth 29 Apr 1855 at Para Plains.

But this last couldn’t be right.  Besides John and Sarah were not married until Mar 1856 when she was 18.

There is no record if Sarah Elizabeth ever went barefoot.

It is again stressed we only know details of lineage, of relationships, but not personal details of the Snell family in order to help Livia.

JOH.

It is noted that Cando says she has traced Samuel's ancestry back to 1733.  You might like to ask her about that, Livia.

In 1851 Farmer John MILLER and his wife Euphemia were living with their 4 children Sarah, Jane, Barbra, and Robina at Rumbles OKI (Orkney Islands).

John MILLER, Agr Labourer, and his wife Euphemia and the 4 children emigrated on the Charlotte Jane from London & Plymouth 8 Oct 1851, arriving 14 Jan 1852.

We have a copy of their Marriage record from the Orkney Islands (very) north Scotland.

Apparently before their 19 Nov 1841 Marriage Euphemia had been a Straw Platter, living with her parents in Aicres OKI, and her father was a Fisherman.  John’s parentage is inconclusive.

You must remember that Scots differed from English in having several forms of Marriage;  the formal ceremony in Church was just one form legally accepted.  And apparently there were no resident clergy in the Orkney Islands, until infrequent visits.


Farmer John 74 died 17 Jan 1889 of “Senile Decay” at his Residence Lily St Goodwood, and Euphemia died 22 Oct 1865 age 51 of Heart Disease at Macclesfield Springs.


Their daughter Sarah Elizabeth married John SNELL, from Cornwall, 26 Mar 1856.

Hi, Livia.   And Others.

Jeenie's OH here.  Jeeni's gone to bed.

John Snell and Sarah Elizabeth nee Miller are Jeenie's ancestors too.

Not signing on that much any more, your posting has been mist until now.

John Snell and Sarah Elizabeth nee Miller are Jeenie's ancestors too, and have several pages of their descendaents, and ancestors, and can answer most questions, re lineage.  Unfortunately, for technical reasons, can't print out the most up to date, only photocopy from printout last May 06.  Perhaps you can pm Jeenie.

But your Volunteer helpers have provided info also that Jeenie does not have, and it is a happy circumstance.  (As an aside, pls refer to http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=290688.new;topicseen#new

.....dee has picked up that there are actually 2 x John Snell who have the same year of birth, the 1918 death is correct, as she says.  (refer prev para)

I wouldn't necessarily say that eg John Train's DoD as the 28th is necessarily a typing error.  Another ancestor Samuel Pearce' DoB is recorded in many places as 3 Nov 1824 (ie, obviously originally from his Tombstone, and carried on), but I have found his Baptism in 3 places in England as 3 Nov 1822, and looking closely at the Headstone, in Greens Plains Cemetary, it may be read as 1821! - which last matches his age on the 1841 census!  Also, Samuel's father is recorded on IGI as Andrew, when this should be Alexander!

Also after much searching, and after many many months, and using many wild cards, and variations, and rechecking BISA etc, trying much lateral thinking, we eventaully found mother Sarah Elizabeth's death of 23 May 1881 recorded under Saull!  Jeenie has the Death Certificate.  (John's too, and etc, etc.)

It is noted that her mother Ann's 28 May 1870 Death Certificate says age 77, (which possibly means 77th year), so, if correct, she was born in 1792 or 3, or 1794 - which "matches" the range from the 1841 census.  These details were provided by the daughter-in-Law, not the son [John] (although there was probably no family difficulties (?) because they had 16 children from 1857 [another John], regularly, ranging from every 11 months to start until 21 months in 1881, when she died, of puerperal fever.)

For us both, the Train family is unusual, inasmuch neither of us usually records more than the immediate family (usually just parents) of one who is not a blood relative, but marries one (ie, James Hay Train is not), but he arrived with his sister Mary and parents James and Agnes on the Epaminondas in 1852.  Mary subsequently married George Clifton whose daughter Agnes married Arthur Elliott Pearce, another blood relative of Jeenie's.

We both started investigating each our own family trees (mine are basically European and a couple of Irish, but Jeenie's are or were all UK, but both with numerous generations in SA), many many years ago, before internet, and well before computerized SA BDM records, in order to see who we are related to.

It used to be said that everyone in SA was related in one way or another, and RootsChat seems to be proving it.  Maybe as a futher suggestion, after reading the next postings I am going to put on before I eventually bed myself, perhaps you might like to pm Cando, and maybe .....dee also.

It is obvious that you have all put in considerable work to help Livia, so I was trying to complete, coming up 4 am, and post this before you all start again in the morning.

JOH.