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Hi All,

They are all pre-war volunteers (Territorials) with the Argylls. Left to right:

Sergeant Major (now called the RSM); Quartermaster Sergeant (carrying a SSgt's Claymore); a commissioned officer. The centre chap is wearing Volunteer collar badges and a South African medal.

As Atom pointed out, none are in the Pipe Band, or are accoutred as such.

Aye

Tom McC

Hi,

The soldier in the photograph is not 9th Division. The size of the photograph would make the metal thistle emblem - which was worn in 1918 and not before - clear. The thing on his arm looks like a button. In the photograph, the soldier is wearing brogues and a Glengarry - rarely worn after 1915.

Also, by 1918 I would expect to see overseas chevrons and a 1914/15 ribbon - if he's been abroad.

1916 - 9th Div wore arcs, pre 1916 Regimental tartan.

15 Division - Coy insignia only for infantry - wedge and circle worn by ancillaries, not the infantry.

Aye

Tom McC

Milly,

The Territorial Force re-numbering is useful for knowing which battalion of the Regiment that a soldier has signed his engagement with (in John Lovat Knight's case, the 5th), however, it does not necessarily determine the battalion that he was serving with. As you can see from the SDGW picture attached, John was serving with the 6th Bn when he was killed.

Please find below the blocks of Regimental numbers allocated to the 4th to the 7th Battalions of the Notts & Derby Regiment, Territorial Force:

200001 to 240000 4th Battalion Notts & Derby Regt
240001 to 265000 5th Battalion Notts & Derby Regt 
265001 to 305000 6th Battalion Notts & Derby Regt
305001 to 330000 7th Battalion Notts & Derby Regt 

The fact that John has changed battalions would suggest to me that something has happened, either wounded or become sick. On his recovery his Regimental Depot would have sent him back to the front to the Battalion which most needed him. It is likely to be after the battle of Loos, as before then the Territorials were contracted to only serve with their individual battalion of their regiment, and it took and it took an Army Council order, sanctioned from up high, to amend this. It is probably worth looking through the local press as this is full of useful information regarding casualties. You would be lucky to find this in the National Archives, as someone burned nearly all of the casualty records in the 1980s.

Both battalions were in the 46th North Midland Division. This division had a hard time at the battle of Loos, losing 3000 men in 10 minutes. After a tough time at Ypres, it was then in action again as the most northern Division of the British attack on the firsta day of the Battle of the Somme. It attacked at one of the, if not the worst positions, which was against a German fortified village that never fell - Gommecourt. Some of its men are buried in GOMMECOURT WOOD NEW CEMETERY.

Bill MacCormack, has written an excellent book about the 56th (London) Division (the Division in the southern part of the attack on Gommecourt), and has recently submitted his new book about the 46th (North Midland) Division for printing. I am sure it will be both informative and interesting. It may not mention John, but it will certainly mention a lot of the circumstances that he would have found himself in.

There is also a book about the 6th Bn by Clifford Houswey: Men of the High Peak: A History of the 1/6th Battalion the Sherwood Foresters 1914-18.

The 5th Battalion have a War Diary at the National Archives at Kew: WO 95/2695

As do the 6th Battalion: WO 95/2694

Hope this has been of use

Tom McC

Hi All,

Not wanting to be flippant  but the picture that Judy posted is a First World War one. There was no such Corps as the Royal Signals at this period. This task was carried out by a the Signals Branch of the Royal Engineers. During the First World War, mounted troops (of any Corps or Regiment) would be issued with a clasp knife and lanyard. If the knife was dropped whilst on horseback, it was a pain in the backside to retrieve, and also increased the chances of it being lost. This problem was remedied by having the knife tied to the person, and placed in the top left pocket.

Mounted troops generally had an ornate, blanco’d one for walking out etc.

Lanyards became a decorative item of dress - for some Corps and the Infantry – after the First World War, especially with the advent of Battledress, when it became common for infantry regiments to wear one (Parachute Regiment: Maroon, Blue, Green, etc.). As they were purely decorative, you won’t find very much at the end of it.

Have a look at the picture attached it shows various ranks of the Royal Engineers, during the First World War. Note the absence of a Royal Engineer's black lanyard – as at this time, it did not exist. However, those Royal Engineers on mounted duties have a lanyard.

The Horseshoe badge that some are wearing is Farrier and Shoeing Smith.

Hope this helps

Tom McC

Judy,

The photo is pre-1920. In the main Cavalry, Artillery, and ASC wore lanyards. At this period, in the infantry, generally the transport section wore lanyards as they worked with horses and were issued a clasp knife and lanyard. The one worn walking out, it almost became an art form of knotting it and blanco-ing it.

Well the Northamptons, and the Anglians (2nd Bn) there after have worn black since time immemorial...  (well at least since Gen Wolfe died in the arms of a Northamptonshire Officer...)

  :)I smell pork pies... Lanyards and stable belts, as a standard issue for all bayonets of a battalion, is a dress accoutrement that appeared well after the first world war, and a lang time efter General Wolfe hung his clogs up - and albeit not readily admitted to, was an idea borrowed from troops associated with equitation.

Hope this has been of use.

Aye

Tom McC