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Messages - louisem

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1
The Common Room / Re: Victorian prisoners
« on: Tuesday 10 January 23 19:53 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you. I was wondering about the train. And of course some railway networks were more extensive than they are now. It seemed a long way to send someone so I was fascinated.

My guess would be they would have travelled by train, handcuffed to a prison warder, possibly in chains as well to hamper any escape, and then by closed cart (think of the old horse drawn black marias) from the railway station nearest the prison to the prison itself. In the case of Dartmoor prison, I would imagine the nearest station was at Horrabridge on the South Devon Railway line between Exeter and Launceston. It's about 6 miles by road from Horrabridge to Princetown.

2
The Common Room / Re: Victorian prisoners
« on: Tuesday 10 January 23 19:51 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you, very interesting. I didn’t even think to google Black Maria, have now found lots more info

A wooden crate on wheels pulled by a horse or horses. No suspension. A sprung driver's bench at the front. Space beside him for a guard. Seats, up top, for more guards. Prisoners manacled to the front wall of the box.  Usually one small door at the back with a shoot bolt type lock. Guards could sit inside near the back wall. 

Regards 

Chas

3
The Common Room / Victorian prisoners
« on: Tuesday 10 January 23 18:52 GMT (UK)  »
I was wondering if anyone knew how prisoners would have been moved from place to place in Victorian times. I was looking at an Ancestor who, in 1879, was tried at the Old Bailey and then was in Newgate Prison followed by Pentonville then Dartmoor. This was all serving one 5 yr sentence. I was particularly interested in how they would have taken him to Dartmoor but realised I didn’t know how even the more local London journeys would have been taken.
Obviously I have tried Google for this but haven’t found any clear answers, search results are dominated by info about transportation. Rootschat search not working for me at the moment. 
Any info would be brilliant.
Thank you.

4
Glamorganshire / Re: Trying to find a mill in Llantwitfadre
« on: Monday 05 December 22 18:06 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much for such a comprehensive answer. I will have a good look later this evening but that sounds very likely to me. It’s so interesting to me that he came to South Wales at that point as his daughter (my 2nd G Grandmother) later ended up moving to Cardiff after she married. I will have a look around the censuses to see if there are any other Devon folk nearby who may have been friends or relations.

Thanks again, so interesting

Louise

 
I came across a couple of mills in while recently looking for a different one, but with a similar tragic accidental death. Looking at the newspaper report, Charles Mars's death is listed under a heading "Pontypridd." I would say therefore that this is where you need to look rather than Llantwit Fardre. There was a Mathew Williams who had been a miller at Mill street, who had retired by 1851 and died in 1857 (he has a probate entry). on the Mill street is the street opposite the Butchers Arms https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1871%2F5379%2F0051&parentid=GBC%2F1871%2F0000373065

Butchers Arms On Google https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6011415,-3.3409089,3a,37.5y,140.54h,124.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s92f5-Q0T-lxZfdU7qpQI9w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


In 1861 this mill would appear to be run by David Williams born 1823 (or 1826 on 1871 census). David Williams was however named as the occupier of the mill in Mill street.

In 1871 David Williams, born 1823 was the miller and corn factor of what was described as Rhondda Rd. 1871 RG10 5379 Folio 25 Page 5 Schedule 26 FindMyPast has it transcribed as Pontypridd Upper Mills, but it should be Pontypridd Upper: Mills and was next to Carmel Chapel.

For a drones eye view https://www.google.com/maps/place/Consortium+Builders/@51.6022144,-3.343806,155m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m22!1m16!4m15!1m6!1m2!1s0x486e17a46716594b:0x25b18988304d766d!2sMill+St,+Pontypridd!2m2!1d-3.3415169!2d51.6011457!1m6!1m2!1s0x486e10b2c113730d:0x5bf8cb4f9e7fb376!2sPontypridd!2m2!1d-3.342314!2d51.600774!3e0!3m4!1s0x486e17a50424cf8b:0xc79c0aa27334e330!8m2!3d51.6020142!4d-3.3438258




I would say that what would seem to be 2 mills on the earlier censuses were in fact the same mill, and this seems to be suggested by the 1901 census. There is no mill marked on Scotland old maps, but current day Rhondda Rd and Mill street join by the traffic lights and before the viaduct was enlarged, may have been the same street (see description of area in which includes the viaduct and probably mill https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/34861?term=mill%20street%2C%20pontypridd). It also names Millfield car park and shows Plas Carmel - which is where chapel listed on the 1871 census would have been

1901 shows David Williams at The Mill, listed between Mill st followed by Mill Field (Van) and Rhondda then Rd : Piece 5002 Folio185 Page number 31

5
Glamorganshire / Re: Trying to find a mill in Llantwitfadre
« on: Thursday 01 December 22 19:15 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you very much for this

There is a corn mill shown here just south of Llantwit Fadre on this 1872 map. Not sure if it's the one referred to. I can't see another flour mill in the area, though it may appear on an earlier map.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102342583

6
Glamorganshire / Trying to find a mill in Llantwitfadre
« on: Monday 28 November 22 21:46 GMT (UK)  »
I have a death certificate for my 3rd g grandfather Charles Mars. He died in a mill accident on Nov 19th 1856. The death certificate under the date of death says Llantwitfadre, Pontypridd. The cause of death says ‘crushed by the water wheel of the flour mill’. I have found just one newspaper report (I can’t find any in the Wales newspapers online but found one on Find My Past). This says he died at Mr Williams mill in Pontypridd.
I wondered if anyone has any ideas re the location of the mill.
Thank you very much.

7
Glamorganshire / Re: Eliza Davies died 1931 - who lived at this address ?
« on: Monday 10 October 22 19:16 BST (UK)  »
Could this be it?


Full name of newspaper is Western Mail and South Wales News

You’re a genius! I love Wales historic newspapers online but I didn’t even think to look for this…. Sounds spot on.

I’m sad for her, she had quite a lot of loss in her life, most of her children died before her. Let’s hope this was a kind place.

Thank you very much.

8
Glamorganshire / Re: Eliza Davies died 1931 - who lived at this address ?
« on: Monday 10 October 22 16:11 BST (UK)  »
Quote
I will take a stroll past next week when I’m back in Cardiff and go to Cathays library to see if any of the late 1920s street directories are there.

Check the electoral registers for 1930/31

Will do. I find it so frustrating that I can’t address search accurately on Ancestry as they have a lot of Cardiff registers so I’m sure the info is there somewhere.

9
Glamorganshire / Re: Eliza Davies died 1931 - who lived at this address ?
« on: Monday 10 October 22 16:03 BST (UK)  »
FindMyPast has an address search  :)

Try searching Jennie Berlinsky living Cardiff

Thank you 😊. Nobody sounding familiar but that amount of people suggests that in 1939 at least it was split into rooms. I will take a stroll past next week when I’m back in Cardiff and go to Cathays library to see if any of the late 1920s street directories are there.

My grandfather never spoke about his family but I clearly once quizzed him when I was a teenager as I have got a piece of paper where I have drawn a very vague mini tree and for his grandparents I have written ‘Albany Rd’ the 1921 address. He must have told me that at some point. I also have all Eliza’s previous addresses so this Clare St one is mysterious. Especially as she would have gone there when quite elderly.

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