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Messages - Matt R

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1
Wales / Re: Missing man on the 1841 census - Price Edwards
« on: Tuesday 07 October 25 16:50 BST (UK)  »
Hi Millie,

Yes, I've ruled them out as Price was married first to Anne Hall (1835) and then to Sophia Thomas (1844). His residence at the time of his 1844 marriage was Dowlais. He and Sophia married in the Bethesda Chapel in Dowlais, which I understand to be an Independent chapel.

There is a non-conformist baptism for a Price son of Thomas Edwards in Pembrokeshire in 1812 but none of the evidence from the censuses suggests he was from Pembrokeshire so while I haven't rule it out, nothing is pointing me in that direction (unless there was a very small religious nc community church there that the family subscibed to).

2
Wales / Re: Missing man on the 1841 census - Price Edwards
« on: Tuesday 07 October 25 15:17 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 07 October 25 07:59 BST (UK)
Possibly him in Dowlais, 1843

25 February 1843: Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian
Quote
Price Edwards, haulier, Dowlais, was charged by Ann Williams, of the same place, widow woman, with committing a common assault on her person, on the 18th inst. It appeared in the evidence that complainant had commenced the assault. but that it had escaped her memory when she applied for the summons. The case was therefore dismissed. and complainant ordered to pay costs.

Blimey Alan, thanks for that. In all likelihood this is the same man. There aren't many with that name in Wales at all, despite the fact he is still hard to pin down. I'd find it difficult there were two in Dowlais unless one is a relation. Thanks as despite searching newspapers for him previously, this had escaped my discovery!

3
Wales / Re: Missing man on the 1841 census - Price Edwards
« on: Tuesday 07 October 25 15:06 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: hanes teulu on Monday 06 October 25 20:25 BST (UK)
Whenever I think of missing Census records "Dowlais '61" always springs to mind - wonder why?

That he might be missing from more than 1 census is not "unlucky" - simply another instance of "s*d's law"?

What do you expect to learn from the '41 Census (if found) that you don't already know?

Sod's law is definitely what it is! But I was/am hopeful that, should be be located in 1841, that he might be residing with siblings or even a parent. All I know of him is what he stated on his marriage certificate in 1844; that his father was Thomas Edwards. There is a relation named Jane too but the commonality of the Edwards surname in the area presents problems I'd hoped the census might - just might - resolve.

4
Wales / Re: Missing man on the 1841 census - Price Edwards
« on: Monday 06 October 25 20:00 BST (UK)  »
Hi both, thanks for posting!

CaroleW: I've not found any children for the Edwards/Hall marriage and I've checked the GRO indexes for Edwards mms Hall births from 1837-1840. I can't see any baptisms on Ancestry either so unless they did have one/some who passed in infancy, I am doubtful.

hanes teulu: Great shout re: the missing entries for Glamorgan. It's possible but it would be very unlucky as he and his family are also missing from he 1861 (Dowlais). He should, however, in theory, be in the Nantyglo area. I guess it depends when between 1840-1844 he moved from Nantyglo/Blaina to Dowlais.

5
Wales / Missing man on the 1841 census - Price Edwards
« on: Monday 06 October 25 17:08 BST (UK)  »
Hello chatters,

I'm after some help please in locating my 4 gt grandfather, Price Edwards. Censuses from 1851 and 1871 state that he lived in Ebbw Vale with his wife Sophia and their children (Jane b1845, Elizabeth b1850, Thomas b1854).

Price married Sophia (nee Thomas) in Dowlais, Glamorgan in 1844 and had previously been married to Anne Hall, who died in Nantyglo in 1840. However, I am having trouble finding Price as a widower on the 1841. He gives his birthplace as Merthyr consistently and his year of birth ranges from 1812-1816. He married Anne in 1835 in Blaina and it's there she was buried after she died in August 1840.

I'd appreciate some fresh pairs of eyes in hunting for Price on the 1841 as I have just been through the Nantyglo 1841 and cannot find him there. Ancestry isn't bringing up anything obvious either. His father was allegedly Thomas Edwards, and on Price's marriage to his first wife Anne in 1835, one of the witnesses is a Jane Edwards, perhaps a sister or his mother.

If anyone can absorb my insanity as I tear what's left of my hair out  ;D looking for Price, I'd appreciate some help please.

Kind regards,
Matt.

6
Scotland / Re: The Mysterious Case of Annie McKay/Mackie
« on: Sunday 17 August 25 12:13 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Neale,

John Hastie was indeed Jane Marshall Hastie's son, but he was raised by Ralph and Ann as she was 18 and unmarried when he was born.

She had another son, Andrew Henderson Hastie, born in 1866 but I have traced him.

7
Scotland / Re: The Mysterious Case of Annie McKay/Mackie
« on: Sunday 17 August 25 09:20 BST (UK)  »
Here is a summary of the children of Ralph Abercrombie Hastie and Ann McKay and which denominations they married under:

Jane Marshall Hastie (named after her maternal grandmother it seems).
- Born c.1843 in Edinburgh - no baptism found.
- Married Edward McConville in 1869 at St. Mary's Chapel, Lanark - Roman Catholic.
- Witnesses: Lawrence Cahill, Henry Fitzpatrick and Ann Hastie.

Marion Hastie (named after paternal grandmother).
- Born c.1845 in Edinburgh – no baptism found.
- Married William Mackay (!) in 1868, Forth Lanarkshire – United Presbyterian Church (UPC).
- Witnesses: Andrew McKie and Matthew Gibbie/Gibble.
Here of cousre the witness Andrew McKie is interesting. He could be a relation of the groom however, but the spelling is different.

After Marion’s birth, Ralph and Ann then appear to have moved from Edinburgh to Biggar, Lanarkshire. Ralph was a nailmaker journeyman so a move isn’t a surprise.

Andrew Hastie (named after maternal grandfather).
-   Born c.1847 in Biggar, Lanarkshire – no baptism found.
-   Died 1870, single.

Archibald Hastie (named after paternal grandfather).
-   Born c.1849 in Biggar – no baptism found.
-   Married Margaret Russell in 1871, Forth – UPC.
-   Witnesses: Andrew McKie and Marion Watson (Andrew McKie is now a lead I think)

Annie ‘Mackie’ Hastie (my ancestor)
-   Born c.1852 in Biggar, Lanarkshire – no baptism found
-   Married Walter Russell in 1871, Forth – UPC.
-   Witnesses: Ralph Hastie and Archibald Hastie

Agnes Hastie (Ralph’s paternal grandmother was named Agnes)
-   Born c1854 in Biggar, Lanarkshire – no baptism found.
-   Married John Ralton 1874, Forth – UPC.
-   Witnesses: Walter Waddell and Robert Brown – both are unknown to me

Margaret Hastie (unknown connection to that name)
-   Born 1857 Biggar, BC signed by father Ralph – no baptism found.
-   Married John Somerville in 1879 at Kirkfieldbank – UPC.
-   Witnesses: William Dawson, Catherine Hastie and Richard Somerville.

Flora McDonald Hastie (unknown connection to the name except for the famous one to Bonnie Prince Charlie).
-   Born 1859 in Biggar, BC signed by father Ralph – no baptism found.
-   Married James Gray in 1881 at Kirkfieldbank, Lesmahagow - UPC
-   Witnesses: John Hastie and Mary Hastie. Only possible clue here is that John was the illegitimate child of Flora’s eldest sister Jane. He was born in 1860 and went to the U.S. where he became a Baptist preacher.

Catherine Hastie (Ralph’s aunt on his paternal side was a Catherine).
-   Born 1862 in Biggar, BC signed by father Ralph – no baptism.
-   Married Alexander Parkin in 1889 at Kirkfieldbank, Lesmahagow – UPC
-   Witnesses: Francis Parkin and Euphemia Stark – no known connection

Mary Hastie
-   Born 1864, Biggar, BC signed by father Ralph – no baptism found.
-   Married James Tait in 1886 at Bannatyne Street, Lanark – UPC.
-   Witnesses: George Reid and Catherine Hastie.

The lack of baptismal records is quite frustrating, but the biggest lead I can see here is that an Andrew McKie was a witness at two Hastie weddings. That’ll be where I head next!


8
Scotland / Re: The Mysterious Case of Annie McKay/Mackie
« on: Sunday 17 August 25 08:55 BST (UK)  »
Hi all,

Thank you for all of your replies overnight. I'm going to answer or expand each of them individually:

AndyJ2022
According to the birth registrations of the ten children, Ralph was literate as his signature appear on certificates (he registered all children) and there is no 'x' on them. I take this to infer that Ralph at the very least was literate, but no trace of scribe for Ann appears unfortunately.

Turning more to Ralph briefly, he was the youngest child of Archibald Hastie (soldier an tailor) and Marion Legget. His rather unusual name comes from Sir Ralph Abercromby (no relation) who served as governor of Trindad and died in 1801 (Archibald had served in the capture of Martinique in 1811 and was likely influenced by Sir Ralph). The name Ralph does not appear in the Hastie family before my Ralph was born, and I also cannot find any baptism for him (he was born c.1825 in Edinburgh). However, further back in time, Archbald and his siblings were all baptised in the Church of Scotland. So for whatever reason, the lack of baptismal records for the Hasties seems to have begun with Archibald and Marion's children, in Edinburgh, in the 1812-1826 period.

I've also taken a quick look at the 1881 census and Ann's birthplace of 'Forth' is written down as is, rather than enumerated by way of a ditto mark.

ColC
Hi Colin. Thanks for the suggestion of the Carnwath account books. I had a look through them last night but cannot find anything pertaining to this family. Many entries appear to be brief and only state basic details, .i.e. "For Mr. Steele" or "Brought forward". Disappointly scant I'm afraid!

I checked the 1841 census for Ralph too; he is living as an apprentice nailmaker with two others in Canongate, Edinburgh. No obvious family ties, and I've researched his siblings and parents extensively. But without a baptism for him either, or his siblings, I suspect the family belonged to a very minor congregation, the name and denomination of which I do not know at present.

Aquitaine
Thank you for this - this has led me to another mystery! The stone is very informative and although no lair records exist, I also believe Ralph to be buried in the same grave. I note too, the spelling of Ann's name as McKay, which is consistent with how it appears on all children's marriage certificate and available birth records too.
What intrigues me though is that Archibald purchased the lair in 1876. None of his children died then, nor anyone I can see in the family. That is something I will have to try and find out, so that is a potential lead - thanks!

David
Thanks for the context around Edinburgh mining. I've always known my Hasties to have lived around the Canongate/Cowgate area of the city so, with it being the old town, I had just written off Ann and Ralph meeting there somehow, especially if she was from Carnwath originally. I guess it is another reminder that in this game ruling things out sometimes isn't helpful. At this point in time, however, nothing ties Ann to Edinburgh except the inference that she had married Ralph there in 1842.

Forfarian
I've spent some time collating what I have to see if any clues are offered. I'll type up a summary of the children and denominations too for clarity and will post again shortly.

Thanks everyone who has replied...I am not ignoring more recent replies...just responding in the next post!

Matt



9
Scotland / The Mysterious Case of Annie McKay/Mackie
« on: Saturday 16 August 25 13:51 BST (UK)  »
Hello Rootschatters,

I am hoping somebody may be able to assist me in trying to solve something of a puzzle for me regarding my 4x great-grandmother, Ann(ie) McKay/Mackie.

For years now, I have faced a stumbling block trying to trace Ann's origins and indeed her parents.

According to various census entries, Ann was born in approximately 1822 and she married a nailmaker (later miner), Ralph Abercrombie Hastie.They had ten children together, all in Scotland, and the birth certificates of the latter children state that Ann and Ralph had married in Edinburgh on 9th April 1842 (first child Jane Marshall Hastie born 1844 in that same city).

I have never been able to find a marriage entry for Ralph and Ann, despite them consistently providing a date to the registrar of 09/04/1842. This leads me to believe that either they did not actually marry, or the ceremony was conducted in a non-conformist venue. I've yielded nothing from ScotlandsPeople, but the mystery doesn't end there.

Following her marriage to Ralph A. Hastie, Ann appears on successive census returns until 1881 (she died in 1884). Her place of birth changes as follows:

1851 - pob Edinburgh
1861 - pob Edinburgh
1871 - pob Carnwath, Lanarkshire
1881 - Forth, Lanarkshire (where she was also living at the time).

Ann's first children with Ralph were born in Edinburgh, so I'm leaning towards this being the correct place of birth for her. However, on her death certificate, her parents are recorded as Andrew McKay, coal miner, and Jean Marshall (both deceased). I don't know many coal miners that would have lived in Edinburgh, but I am also struggling to pin down a marriage between Andrew McKay and Jean Marshall. I've tried searching for any potential siblings for Ann, but I'm not even sure where she was on the 1841 before her marriage.

Another complication is that the names passed down through the family, and indeed the spelling of Ann's own surname, alternates between McKay and Mackie. Mackie seems to be the most common way registrars have recorded it, but altogether these obstacles make it difficult for me to see clearly where I might go next to try and pin Ann down.

I hope I have articulated my dilemma clearly and I'd be grateful if anyone has any advice or guidance as to where I might try looking next, or indeed if I have missed someplace obvious. Ann named two of her children Andrew and Jane Marshall Hastie so I believe the parents entered by her husband on her death certificate to be accurate. Jane was first-born so I'm fairly confident she was named after Ann's mother.

This has me flummoxed...I hope I have not flummoxed you in the process  ;D

Any help would be warmly welcomed.

Thanks,
Matt.

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