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Messages - Carole B

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1
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Death in WW2 bombing raid
« on: Sunday 02 December 07 08:16 GMT (UK)  »
Oh my - this is incredible jorose...  Yet another piece of the jigsaw  falls into place - allbeit a very sad one. Two uncles I never new I had and sadly was never able to know.

Thank you so much for taking the time to look for and find this. I can now go on the hunt for the elusive marriage between Frederick and Emily Rose.

2
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Death in WW2 bombing raid
« on: Friday 30 November 07 21:20 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you for looking 'loo'.
Yes these are my great grandparents. Frederick was stationed there with the Royal Irish Rifles and married Mary Ellen Stapleton  in Halifax. She was just 17 and the daughter of John and Mary Mullay.

I have a copy of the 1886 marriage certificate of Frederick and Mary's marriage in Halifax. I got it on line through the  www.novascotiagenealogy.com.

So this is the right Mary Ellen Stapleton/Edmed, but there is no trace of their deaths. They both show up in the 1901 census - with their children, but then she 'disappears' (?), but Frederick is shown as 'living' and a pensioner at his daughter Muriel Edith's wedding to Charles Newcombe on Christmas day 1911 in Wandsworth; and that's the last trace I can find of Frederick...

3
Armed Forces / Re: Royal Irish Rifles
« on: Thursday 29 November 07 17:56 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Ken.
Thank you so much for your speedy response to my queries.

Frederick William Edmed 1st   b. 1863 – Bandsman in 2nd Batt. Royal Irish Rifles.  Married in Halifax, NS  16th February 1886.
FW Edmed 2nd  b. 1889 -
M.E.Edmed       b.1891
Claude Edmed   b. 1895 MALTA. I don’t have the exact date I’m afraid.


*************************************************************
Edmed family in 1901 census at:
RG13/443 Page 10


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As far as visiting Kew or an FHC, unfortunately this is impossible now. I live permanently in northern Italy and for health reasons am no longer able to travel back to the UK. So I have to do all my research, and ordering, ‘on line’; and I will admit that even though I look at the National Archives, I try to give the impression that I understand my way around, but in all honesty I just can’t seem to find a darned thing. I can find the references (like J77 or WO97) then I’m totally lost – I can’t seem to go any further. Perhaps I’m not supposed to – I don’t know.

You said in your reply:
“Regarding finding his papers, if they survive they will be in WO97 in Kew. They are original documents so you will have to visit, or employ a researcher.”
How could I go about that – and would you have any idea how expensive it might be?  I think that could be an option/solution for me considering my situation. What do you think?

Regards
Carole



4
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Death in WW2 bombing raid
« on: Thursday 29 November 07 08:34 GMT (UK)  »
WOW - thank you so much for that information. I have been wallowing around the National Archives sections J77 and J78 for some time, and they might as well be written in Greek as far as I'm concerned.  ::). I did inquire about a 'search' for the divorce file but was told that it was £40 for a ten year search and the period I knew was from 1912 to 1924 so I was looking at a possible £80 fee.... :'(

But after only a few hours here you are with dates and some details of that divorce and the  middle name of Gunter's daughter - what a surprise that she was an "E.R.". I wonder if she did by any chance marry F.W. Edmed?

Thank you SO much for your help Valda, it is really appreciated - I will now order a copy of that divorce file from the NA.

5
Armed Forces / Royal Irish Rifles
« on: Thursday 29 November 07 08:00 GMT (UK)  »
My GGgrandfather Frederick William Edmed (b. 1863) was in the 2nd Battalion of the Royal Irish Rifles according to his marriage certificate.

He was married in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada in 1886  when his regiment was stationed there. He was then posted to Egypt with his Canadian wife and they had two children in 1889 and 1891 , the first in Alessandria and the second in Cairo. They then must have been posted to Malta where their third child was born.

The marriage certificate of their daughter  (1911) shows that he (GGgf) was by now an 'army pensioner'.

This is the last place I have found any notification of him....and I am hoping to find how to go about obtaining his service record and any proof of when and where he died. I do subscribe to Ancestry.com but despite hours of looking I can't find much on pre- WW1 military service at all. Can anyone help - please?


6
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Death in WW2 bombing raid
« on: Wednesday 28 November 07 22:10 GMT (UK)  »
Since my last 'update' in January things have moved on slowly but surely (well almost...).

I finally found the proof that the Muriel Edith Edmed born in Cairo, Egypt in 1891 was in fact 'my lost Nina'. That she married a Charles Newcombe on 25.12.1911 in Wandsworth, London.  18 months later had an illegitimate child (my mother), then registered her birth TWICE. Then in 1924 she married a Richard Henry Gunter in Islington and she was shown as divorced from Newcombe.

 Then - who knows... as next I - finally - discover her death record and that long awaited Death Certificate has now finally arrived. I now know that she died on 18th March 1949 in her home (now) in Chiswick, following a brain hemorrhage. But interestingly her death was reported by her 'sister-in-law' - one E.R.Edmed. Now this was yet another twist in the tail and made me notice another 'missed' snippet of information....let me explain.

Nina had two brothers:
No1. Frederick William - born Alessandria Egypt 1889.
Married Katie Savill 1913.

No2. Claude Victor Edmed - born Malta 1895.
Married Lily M.A. Tyson 1922.

Claude was a witness at Nina's first marriage to Charles Newcombe.

F.W. Edmed (Frederick William?) and E.R.Edmed were both witnesses at Nina's second marriage to Richard Henry Gunter in 1924.

So the question arises - What happened to Fredericks FIRST wife Katie.... she is one of a large farming family from Saffron Walden and shows on the 1891 Census. I can find NO trace of her death.
BUT
On that 1891 Census Katie is shown to have a younger sister Emily Ruth...could this girl have become Frederick’s second wife E.R.Edmed?

AND another thought....
Richard Henry (or as he is often shown - Henry Gunter) had one daughter from his first marriage - she was born in 1900 and named Emily! I wonder what her middle name was (if she had one)?

So far I have not found any trace of the deaths of ANY of the Edmed family whatsoever - apart from that of Muriel Edith (Nina) in 1949 and my own mother!

So I am searching for ANY of the following deaths (or other marriages) - if anyone has any ideas or can help...

1. Frederick William Edmed (1st) b.1863
2. Mary Ellen Edmed (nee Stapleton) b.1886 Halifax Nova Scotia
3. Frederick William Edmed (2nd) b. 1889 Alessandria Egypt.
4. Katie Edmed (nee Savill) b. about 1882 Saffron Walden.
5. Charles Newcombe b. about 1887 Camberwell London
6. Claude Victor Edmed b. 1895 Malta
7. Lily M...A. Tyson b. (Claude’s wife)
8. Richard Henry (or Henry Richard) Gunter b. about 1877 Wiltshire
9. Emily Gunter (Richard’s daughter) b. about 1900 – Islington London


I find it incredible that there seem to be no easily found records of these people’s deaths. Their marriages – yes. One or two births too. But their deaths are another matter entirely!

It's driving me up the wall.....
 :-\

For the ongoing story see my 'Naughty Nina Saga' at:
 
http://www.caroleinitaly.com/thenaughtyninasaga.htm

Open and scroll down for episodes One and Two....


7
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Death in WW2 bombing raid
« on: Monday 29 January 07 10:08 GMT (UK)  »
In light of the huge amount of assistance and information you have all provided here, I think it only fair that I let you know ''what's what' by providing a 'temporary' update.

With any luck ??? we (you ) have found some details of Nina Edmed. But dear oh dear - what a tangled web she wove.... Birth's registered twice - in slightly different names. Possible flight to the USA while letting people think she had died in the war. Possibly born in Egypt (which I previously had discounted.....) Oh the list of possibilities that we are near to finding out who she was are numerous.

One thing seems to be clear though - the thought of 'millions in cash' lying in a bank vault with my name on it ;D, has now moved to be 'millions, yes...but in possible family members when I thought there was just ME - far more rewarding than €£$ - what do you reckon?

I will try and put together a more comprehensive resumè of 'where we're at' and post it for you soon.

In the meantime - thank you all for your help (even if you have almost scared me to death with the volume of it  :-*). It is greatly appreciated!

8
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Death in WW2 bombing raid
« on: Sunday 21 January 07 16:27 GMT (UK)  »
I'm so sorry - I'm finding all these new names very confusing.

In truth, as I explained in the two page 'story and known details'   post - I can go NO further back really than my mothers marriage certificate (1936) and her birth certificate (1913).

I am - at this stage anyway - NOT looking to go further back than perhaps the birth of my grandmother who was, as explained, known to me only as Nina Edmed. I would be so pleased to know the following about her:
When she was born.
Where she was born.
Who (if anyone) did she marry.
Where/when did she marry.
When did she die.
Where did she die.

At the moment anything beyond that  I wouldn't know what to do with.

Sorry. It's just that I NEVER expected such a huge and detailed response. If I'm honest - I really didn't expect to get anywhere at all with so little information. Just shows doesn't it!

I just don't know where to go from here.....

9
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Death in WW2 bombing raid
« on: Sunday 21 January 07 10:55 GMT (UK)  »
Page 2

My view of the story!
Over time, thinking about the few things I did sort of  know, I had thought that this may have been - at least - a possible scenario, and 'at worst'  little more than romantic 'twaddle'. So for what it's worth here are my ideas on ‘how it might have been’!

Nina worked in the same place as Arthur (Offley). They had an affair, the result of which was little Muriel Edith. Born 27 May 1913. Her birth was registered on 8 July 1913 at Handsworth, Birmingham - nearly six weeks after the birth. This registration shows Nina Edmed as the mother and Arthur Offley as the father. So I think that Arthur then probably gradually receded into the background - never to be seen again (the cad), and illegitimacy - being what it was in those days - had to be hidden.

At this point Nina had to move to where she wasn't known and invent a poor 'dead' husband (Arthur Payne) and with that of course the illegitimate daughter's details had to be the same, to save poor Nina's dignity. So in effect Muriel Edith Offley became Muriel Mèrcia Payne.

 A new 'employer' (sugar daddy?) was found and the scam had to continue. He  (whoever he was),  perhaps didn't want another man's child around so was quite happy to pay for her to go away to a school that would fit in with 'his' standard of life'. Cheltenham Ladies College is not that far from Stratford-on Avon. I think he did indeed live in, and perhaps 'own' New Place in Stratford-on-Avon. Then Muriel, who's poor Daddy 'died' in the war (the subterfuge story) spent her holidays there and went (perhaps) to America on one of these holidays, when still only a toddler, with mama Nina and sugar daddy! This trip is supported by a photograph taken of my mother as a ‘toddler’ by an American Photographic establishment in New York.

Then when Muriel grows up she meets a dashing army Cavalry Captain (true), but falls in love with his 'groom'. Now Muriel needs her birth certificate to be able to marry. 
Oh disaster! What is Nina to do now? 
Well I think she feigned indignation, saying that her daughter was marrying 'beneath herself' and that if she went ahead with it she would 'be cut off for ever'....This was what my mother (Muriel) always told me. So the birth certificate was refused by Nina. She’s got to cover her 'dark' past at all costs (wicked old female dog). As long as Nina's reputation is preserved, never mind about the daughter! So to be able to marry  Muriel had to make a declaration that her details were “true to the best of her knowledge”!

Now to sustain this 'You're banned from my life' charade, Nina has to disappear from where her daughter can find her. So where better than to the area  where  (perhaps) she may have been born - Kent. Maybe she found a position, or was still with the first sugar daddy/employer/consort or even  with another employer. Who knows?  Sufficient that Muriel can't find her and so disclose her ongoing lies. Then she is killed (most likely) during a bombing raid in the Dover area. But what name was she using? Nina Edmed - or had she by now invented some other 'fantasy life'? It seems that during these years she kept in touch with two old friends in Handsworth, but swore them to secrecy about her lies. She may have listed them as people to inform if anything happened to her. Hence their (limited?) knowledge of her death. I was with my Mother when she questioned this elderly couple in 1961 and they really didn't want to talk about it. But the impression we got was that Nina HAD lied.

So that is my theory, having pieced together all the little bits of the jig-saw. The problem remains though - that Nina amid all her shame and stupidity kept the most important pieces of this jig-saw to herself and took them to the grave!


With most grateful thanks for any help you may be able to offer....

Carole B.


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