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Messages - Lught-thie

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1
Isle of Man Lookup Requests / Re: Seeking the parents of John Cain, blacksmith, of Baldwin
« on: Thursday 04 September 25 21:49 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Blue70 on Thursday 04 September 25 20:57 BST (UK)
Family Search has some useful IOM records concerning illegitimate births. Those cases that went to court:-

Diocesan orders of court without petition, 1786-1918 (includes illegitimate births)

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/2031034?availability=Family%20History%20Library


C

Thank you  :)

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Isle of Man Lookup Requests / Re: Seeking the parents of John Cain, blacksmith, of Baldwin
« on: Thursday 04 September 25 20:02 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: trish1120 on Thursday 04 September 25 11:43 BST (UK)
Familysearch  has a John Cain Christened  21 September 1823 Braddan, Isle of Man
Parents THOS Cain/Eleanor KELLY
Image has him as Illegitimate*

Maybe?
Parents MATTHIASCain and Isabella FAYLE chrsietened Marown;
THOS 23 Feb 1801
ISABEL 24 April 1803
MATTHIAS 9 Feb 1806

So guess this is the Will info?

Describe The Record (Notes)
Matthias Cain wd 4 July 1851, adm 1852, Marown, schoolmaster Baldwin; dau Isabella Cowley als Cain wife of James Cowley miller both beyond the seas; gdau Isabell Cain dau of decd*** son Thomas; son Matthias exor.

Thos Cain buried Braddan 12 October 1839 age 36

That's fabulous, thank you! While it's not 100% conclusive, I think you might have cracked it! I'd already rather tentatively linked William (John's son) with the William Cain, aged 28, who appears on the 1891 census living with an uncle, William Kelly, at Tromode, Onchan. (After the murder-suicide, William lived first with Catherine's brother, Charles Shimmin, and then with another Kelly family at Renscault, Braddan.)

So that would all fit, if John were the illegitimate son of Thomas and Eleanor. It looks like Thomas's children moved in with their grandfather Matthias after their father's death.

Thanks a million!


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Down / Re: Patrick O'Brien: daughter Martha emigrated to England probably c1841
« on: Thursday 04 September 25 19:50 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: rathmore on Thursday 04 September 25 13:31 BST (UK)
find my past

1841 living at Outrake Gate, Ulverston John and Catherine born in 1816, Jane 4, Marthew 2 and William under 1.

they means must have got married about 1837? is this them on the census?

Mathew is spelt Marthew on the census.

Yep, that's them, thanks, living at Outrake Green, parish/township of Coniston Church.

I haven't been able to find a marriage for them. I've looked on Ancestry and on the Lancashire Parish Clerk Project (digitised parish records). A later census sees them living at Haverigg, near Millom - SW of John's birthplace of Broughton, whereas Coniston is NE - so it's possible they got married in Cumberland, rather than Lancashire. The Cumberland records don't appear to be anywhere near as well preserved as the Lancashire ones.

4
Isle of Man Lookup Requests / Re: Seeking the parents of John Cain, blacksmith, of Baldwin
« on: Wednesday 03 September 25 23:56 BST (UK)  »
Thanks. No, no marriage certificate, I'm afraid. The marriage was 19 Feb 1846 in German. Her father was John Shimmin (he was living with them at the time of their deaths).

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Isle of Man Lookup Requests / Seeking the parents of John Cain, blacksmith, of Baldwin
« on: Wednesday 03 September 25 21:00 BST (UK)  »
Hi,

I'm trying to trace the parents of my ancestor, John James Cain.

John was a blacksmith and lived at St John's. He married Catherine Shimmin in 1846 and would go on to kill her in a murder-suicide in 1866.

The censuses give different birthplaces and ages for John; however, the newspaper reports into his death say the family came from Baldwin. He appears on the 1841 census at 'Ballamoday' (Ballamodda), living with Matthias Cain, schoolmaster, aged 75, who I presume may have been his grandfather. According to the census, he was 15 years old.

Matthias's will (4 July 1851) refers to three children: Isabella, Thomas and Matthias. So Thomas and Matthias Jnr are the prime suspects for paternity. For some reason I can't remember(!), I've a suspicion John may have been born outside of wedlock. Am I right in thinking that there are court or church records of illegitimate children?

Any help would be very gratefully received, thank you!

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Down / Re: Patrick O'Brien: daughter Martha emigrated to England probably c1841
« on: Wednesday 03 September 25 20:37 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: amondg on Wednesday 03 September 25 20:27 BST (UK)
Interesting fact

James Moffett Birkett's daughter Hannah married Housby Burkett's son William 18 May 1908 in Jefferson County Alabama .
He was 30 years older than her.
Children
Ellen Elizabeth born circa 1909
William circa 1912
Ruby  circa 1915

Wow! There seems to be quite a bit of intermarriage on that side of my family  :o

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Down / Re: Patrick O'Brien: daughter Martha emigrated to England probably c1841
« on: Wednesday 03 September 25 17:49 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: gaffy on Wednesday 03 September 25 05:08 BST (UK)
Occasionally in Ireland there was a pattern of siblings in one family marrying siblings of another and on the slightest off chance of that coincidence here, I'll just mention the following marriage as a purely speculative punt, it took place on 15 March 1847 in the Registrar's Office in Newtownards, Co. Down, between a Patrick O'Brien, a miner living in the townland of Whitespots in Newtownards Civil Parish (probably working at the lead mine there), and Catherine McMullan, also living in Whitespots, the two fathers were recorded as Patrick O'Brien and Patrick McMullan, both farmers:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1847/09336/5380600.pdf

https://www.townlands.ie/en/down/ards-lower/newtownards/newtownards-north/whitespots/

That's very interesting, thank you. Yes, I've come across at least one instance of siblings of one family marrying siblings of another in my own tree.

Obviously this is far from conclusive proof, but the details fit. This Patrick would be of an age to potentially be Catherine and Martha's brother, and Catherine could be John's sister. On Martha and John's marriage record, it records their fathers as Patrick O'Brien and Patrick McMullan.

Thanks a million! It's a great lead for me to try to pursue!

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Down / Re: Patrick O'Brien: daughter Martha emigrated to England probably c1841
« on: Tuesday 02 September 25 21:36 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: rathmore on Tuesday 02 September 25 13:27 BST (UK)
James death is on Find my past(1928) I came across a Byrne H Birkett born 1893 Alabama was in the first world war.  Do you now if this person is a relative of yours,  Irish name were spelt as you said them.

Is the church still standing in Broughton in Furness and have to talk to them about there records or the local council.

I'm afraid I don't know anything of the Birketts in Alabama, sorry. (I'm too stingy to maintain a worldwide Ancestry account and simply paid to view James Moffitt Birkett's records.)

James' surname, Birkett, comes from his English father. It's a fairly common name here in Furness (now in Cumbria, but formerly in Lancashire).

Broughton's church is still standing. A vast quantity of Lancashire parish records (including both Broughton and Coniston) have been transcribed by volunteers and are available (for free) online: you could try having a dig there (it's called the Lancashire OnLine Parish Clerk Project), but I'm afraid you'll need a bit more to go off, as there's loads of Birketts and many different parishes.

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Down / Re: Patrick O'Brien: daughter Martha emigrated to England probably c1841
« on: Tuesday 02 September 25 21:28 BST (UK)  »
Thank you all!

I somehow hadn't spotted Housby Birkett (probably because he was born and died between censuses). The other Housby Birkett in the Coniston parish records is this Housby's uncle (John Birkett's brother).

Ah, yes, you're right, it is Piper Hall/Hole! That matches the baptism records. I'd misread the handwriting on the census.

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